Dale Farm Travellers.

[Simster]

Whatever is needed, and rigorous application of them.

I think there are lots of things that need looking at. If the law accomodated traveller types more sensibly, we'd create less of a rod for our own backs. So the law should provide for more traveller sites.

Equally, when they decide to do what they do best - park in places they are not welcome, steal stuff and leave a total mess behind, then the law should be able to deal with them properly. And this includes the police who sometimes simply leave these communites to their own devices even when they should be stepping in.

 

[User removed 4]

I think there are lots of things that need looking at. If the law accomodated traveller types more sensibly, we'd create less of a rod for our own backs. So the law should provide for more traveller sites.

Equally, when they decide to do what they do best - park in places they are not welcome, steal stuff and leave a total mess behind, then the law should be able to deal with them properly. And this includes the police who sometimes simply leave these communites to their own devices even when they should be stepping in.

Absolutely, spot on, just going to stray off topic and mention football ( crazy i know) , did you get a season ticket ? this isnt a dig but a genuine question, I wish I had to be honest.

 

[Simster]

Ireland, and before you quote European laws at me, Italy did it successfully with Romanian Gypsies, there was a lot of talk about imposing sanctions on Italy at the time etc, what's happened? Nothing.

Maybe. But they'd only come back unless things changed significantly here.

Absolutely, spot on, just going to stray off topic and mention football ( crazy i know) , did you get a season ticket ? this isnt a dig but a genuine question, I wish I had to be honest.

Yes.

 

[MACROBLUE]

Just deport these travellers in a very civilised manner back to Ireland. Why the hell do these people choose this country? Oh yes its the benefits.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Just deport these travellers in a very civilised manner back to Ireland.

Without shifting the debate, that isn't really possible, it's an open border.

 

[Simster]

Without shifting the debate, that isn't really possible, it's an open border.

Well it is possible, although pointless (for that very reason).

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Well it is possible, although pointless (for that very reason).

I think due to the legacy of union, something would actually have to change before it was possible for a judge to order deportation between the two countries, there's lots of weird anomalies like how you don't need a passport to travel between the 2, and British/Irish citizens can vote in each other's elections. Anyway like I said, not what the debate is about!

 

[pork pie]

No thanks. Already we're in a situation where the police don't go into pikey compounds without serious levels of backup. I hired a bloke with a JCB once and was baffled when he started chaining down his digger onto the back of his lorry whilst he came inside for a cup of tea at lunchtime. He explained it was because he had mates who had suffered at the hands of pikeys who literally nick diggers off idle lorries with their own crane lorries. When they end up in pikey compounds, the police won't go in and do anything about it, despite the fact the JCB is KNOWN to be in there thanks to the JCB on board tracking device.

Also knew a pub landlady who called the police to do a pretend sweep on the pub because she was being threatened by pikeys. When the police turned up, they advised her to leave that evening because the pikeys would be back at night.

So I'd love to agree with tim, HT and others but from my own anecdotal evidence there are too many of them who rely on criminal activity and a misplaced idea of being able to do what they like. Where I would agree with timdogman is that we need to seriously have a think about changing some of our laws, because ultimately we are only succeeding in moving the problem along from place to place as things stand. Where the f*** are these people supposed to go?

I think you may have missed my point, or I made it badly. There would be no coming out just them caged in.

 

[Simster]

I think you may have missed my point, or I made it badly. There would be no coming out just them caged in.

No I didn't miss your "point". It just gave me a convenient hook to regale my JCB story and how they go missing once they go into existing pikey compounds.

 

[pork pie]

No I didn't miss your "point". It just gave me a convenient hook to regale my JCB story and how they go missing once they go into existing pikey compounds.

Oh ok. Or my sister-in-law's dog would have done if she had not paid a "reward" when they had a shotgun to its head in Hampden Park, but Eastbourne Police refused to get involved. Maybe someone could go with the idea, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[pork pie]

Now that would be entertaining

I'm going to sit on the fence with regard to the rights and wrongs, but I know there are hundreds of police drafted in from all over the place to deal with this eviction, assuming it goes ahead, and it's just going to end up with people being dragged kicking and screaming, off the site, which it's incredibly difficult to do without people getting hurt, and then the usual human rights vs police powers debate, and so we go round again.

They should not have any rights. They infest our country, live outside its laws, and don't pay the taxes to our society. What gives them any rights?

 

[bhaexpress]

Without shifting the debate, that isn't really possible, it's an open border.

Yes indeed, it would also rack up a large amount of Legal AId for their appeal to the European Court of rights. (Forget about the wrongs).

 

[Davemania]

Drive them all into the sea, watch them float away, see who's unfortunate enough to have them wash up nearby next

 

[The Large One]

I think you may have missed my point, or I made it badly. There would be no coming out just them caged in.

Hmmm. Imprisonment without trial, leading ultimately to starvation. All at great expense.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sadly HT with people like you who feel able to dismiss the problem out of hand from the safety of a town house in Hove, these people are not our problem, or they wouldnt be if we introduced similar laws to Ireland to deal with them, there is a specific area in Ireland where the majority come from , I watched a documentary on them a couple of years ago, you should see the houses they all own back there, and please, seriously , for once can you stop this hand wringing bollocks about breaking up communities, these people are supposedly travellers, if so they should be used to it, whats needed is for the government to grow some backbone and introduce firm laws to deal with the problem, which you would agree with had they all pitched up on hove lawns.

£15 million of tax payers money for a net result of postponing and/or moving their plight to another time and another place. This is very much our problem, not to mention a waste of money and respources. What firm laws do you propose then? Banning them from the UK? What about those that were born here?

As for Hove lawns obviously not. What I do want is a solution to this issue which suits all parties and stops wasting our money time and time again. How many more evictions will it take for people to realise this is not the answer? You only need to look at the freqiencies some families have been evicted to realise it is utterly pointless.

Oh, and on a similar thread many months ago you asked how would I like it if a van dweller pitched up outside my house. Well, I now do have a van dweller who pitches up from time to time. But no one seems overly bothered by his presence, including me.

So, my answer is to get real as we need a smarter solution.

Sent from a Hand wringer in Hove.

 

[Nibble]

Dunno what the solution is but I don't know anyone that has ever had a good experience with them, in fact all the experiences I have ever heard about are nasty, viscious, violent, thieveing behaviour. I have had experiences with them and frankly they acted like f***ing animals. Years ago I had to walk past a flyover to get to work and the pikeys that had set up home under the bridge would throw half bricks at me and all sorts of verbal shite. Once they pulled up in a car beside me and told me to get into their car, when I refused they tried to pretend they were police and said that I had tried to sell drugs to a 7 year old the had sat in the back of their car. I refused and had to spend the rest of my walk home with them driving next to me spitting and swearing and threatening me.
What good do they do? They never positively enhance an area, they never do anything for the wider community that they take advantage of. Stick em all in jail if they need a place to crash, can't be any more expensive than paying for them now and we manged to lock up 2000 rioters in a matter of days, do the same with these fuckers.

 

[User removed 4]

Hmmm. Imprisonment without trial, leading ultimately to starvation. All at great expense.

£15 million of tax payers money for a net result of postponing and/or moving their plight to another time and another place. This is very much our problem, not to mention a waste of money and respources. What firm laws do you propose then? Banning them from the UK? What about those that were born here?

As for Hove lawns obviously not. What I do want is a solution to this issue which suits all parties and stops wasting our money time and time again. How many more evictions will it take for people to realise this is not the answer? You only need to look at the freqiencies some families have been evicted to realise it is utterly pointless.

Oh, and on a similar thread many months ago you asked how would I like it if a van dweller pitched up outside my house. Well, I now do have a van dweller who pitches up from time to time. But no one seems overly bothered by his presence, including me.

So, my answer is to get real as we need a smarter solution.

Sent from a Hand wringer in Hove.

What firm laws do I propose ? Making trespass a criminal offence,tightening the law so that land has to be vacated immediately and THEN the appeals process can begin for a start, and are you really , honestly trying to compare having one crusty in a van , occasinally parking in your street , to having an abomination like Dale Farm on your doorstep ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What firm laws do I propose ? Making trespass a criminal offence,tightening the law so that land has to be vacated immediately and THEN the appeals process can begin for a start

All this, in effect, is currently in place. The only real difference with what you propose is that it will be done quicker and maybe with some imprisonment due to the civil to criminal change. Genius Bushy, really clever idea that. How long did it take you to come up with this?

honestly trying to compare having one crusty in a van , occasinally parking in your street , to having an abomination like Dale Farm on your doorstep ?

No, you proposed a hypothetical and slightly linked question months ago, and now I have a real and genuine answer. This is all.

 

[timdogman]

Other than the sheer amount of abuse, racism and mis-information, this stead-fast righteousness of some posters banging on about the law is absurd. I would wager that every single person on this board has intentionally or unintentionally broken a law - whether that's smoking a spliff or parking on double yellow lines. Yet, if someone else breaks a law they should be banged up immediately. I don't see you lot down the beach in the summer telling everyone to stop blazing ganga, and hurling abuse at those that do - nor do I see you confiscating drink off street drinkers - enforcing parking etc. Seriously, if you believe in the law, abide by it completely, uphold it in all areas then pass a judgement on others. As for any anecdotal tales of wrong doing by these people, report them in the proper manner, to the authorities.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sadly HT with people like you .....from the safety of a town house in Hove

And what is this about? Some sort of class angle? Remember, I'm the the white working class you love so much Bushy