Dale Farm Travellers.

[macky]

If you build in a protected area (which is what I assume is meant by green belt - there are many different categories, so in general) it can only be sold to someone with links to the area. Look up the policy if you need proof that it isn't bollocks. Of course, everyone has the same right to build on land (me you and mr t) that's granted planning permission and if it has no protections can be sold at a profit (if indeed the valuation is more than the building costs). You realise that plenty of people that aren't gypsies build without planning permission all the time - there was a notable story about the guy who built a massive extension to his house and hid it with a wall of hay. After seven years it's automatically granted planning, as long as no one has noticed.

and if you put a caravan on land for a set ammount of years same rule applies

 

[rocker959]

Sorted mmmmmmm lovely.

 

[timdogman]

and if you put a caravan on land for a set ammount of years same rule applies

There's a different ruling where it comes to caravans and chalets because they aren't permanent structures. Again, this rule applies to everyone. More than likely, if these families (I think there are 400 or so people in question, 86 separate families) were able to find say 86 different plots of land they could probably get permission granted for a single caravan/chalet. But whether they can afford to buy a small parcel of land is another thing entirely.

And yes they would have to pay tax.

I only want to straighten out the facts here, the level of mis-information and down right racism is just insane. It really is. If I wrote something like 'those f***ing kykes hoarding all their money' or 'n****** do all the murders in the UK' I imagine all sorts of f***ing hell would break loose, I could be arrested, loads of people would be offended and of course those statements have no truth whatsoever - look at Starkey on Newsnight. Some of the statements here are and elsewhere on the internet are much worse - and these people can't even defend themselves.

 

[macky]

There's a different ruling where it comes to caravans and chalets because they aren't permanent structures. Again, this rule applies to everyone. More than likely, if these families (I think there are 400 or so people in question, 86 separate families) were able to find say 86 different plots of land they could probably get permission granted for a single caravan/chalet. But whether they can afford to buy a small parcel of land is another thing entirely.

The rules might apply to every one but 99% of us dont take the piss

 

[Viva Calderon]

Been there the best part part of ten years,now up to 80 families have lost their fight to stay at Dale Farm. Evictions could start tomorrow,could be tasty !! Maybe it is on Sky 'press the red button' ?

Amazing how every pikee interviewed on TV spoke with a Broad Irish accent ? hmmmm can they all be deported one wonders Or should we all build fences and padlock our gates & houses now that this Dopey Green bunch have welcomed all and sundry to camp out and protest in Brighton & Hove. I dunno why we have to put up with all the mess and crap they leave behind everytime they get moved on. I don't know why local councils instead of farting around wasting time taking them to court wasting tax payers money when they move onto green belt /private land don't Block all there trucks vans & caravans in on the land they move onto & charge them all to leave making sure they take all there crap with them or impound there trucks 4x4's & caravans and make em walk back to the ferry on their way out !! Viva Viva Viva!!!

 

[timdogman]

The rules might apply to every one but 99% of us dont take the piss

I highly doubt this statistic you've quoted is true or based on any factual evidence.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The simple plain fact is this country has planning rules that apply to all - not just us middle class, cash cow mugs. I don't begrudge the travellers a lawful place to reside but flouting the planning laws sets a terrible precedent. You give people an inch and they take a yard.

 

[timdogman]

Amazing how every pikee interviewed on TV spoke with a Broad Irish accent ? hmmmm can they all be deported one wonders Or should we all build fences and padlock our gates & houses now that this Dopey Green bunch have welcomed all and sundry to camp out and protest in Brighton & Hove. I dunno why we have to put up with all the mess and crap they leave behind everytime they get moved on. I don't know why local councils instead of farting around wasting time taking them to court wasting tax payers money when they move onto green belt /private land don't Block all there trucks vans & caravans in on the land they move onto & charge them all to leave making sure they take all there crap with them or impound there trucks 4x4's & caravans and make em walk back to the ferry on their way out !! Viva Viva Viva!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you have the right to live in Ireland? Perhaps the Irish will deport all the English and then they'll take their own kind back in return. I have to pay for all the mess and crap after some event that I don't attend or give a flying f*** about happens in Brighton, my neighbours constant fly tipping in the street, some f***ing Tory's duck pond.....by the way, they do own the land they are on, so it isn't private. If you care about aesthetics so much, I expect you live in a gilded palace?

 

[timdogman]

The simple plain fact is this country has planning rules that apply to all - not just us middle class, cash cow mugs. I don't begrudge the travellers a lawful place to reside but flouting the planning laws sets a terrible precedent. You give people an inch and they take a yard.

I agree - certainly there needs to be a better dialogue between travellers, planners, council and community. I'm currently going through a planning process at the moment - I'm educated to post-grad level and it's a mind f***, I can barely understand it. Sadly a lot of these people can't read or write, so for them it's an impossibility - compromises on all sides are needed and it ain't gonna happen if at every turn someone's calling them scum or making them homeless (vice versa situation applies also).

 

[Pavilionaire]

The thing is Tim - whether or not you can read or write - if you concrete a field then build houses or tarmac land then park a caravan without getting any permission first then you should know that's wrong.

Once people start thinking they can do what the f*** they like in this country then we're really finished. The scroungers, the travellers, the looters, the tax dodgers all need to be brought into line.

 

[timdogman]

The thing is Tim - whether or not you can read or write - if you concrete a field then build houses or tarmac land then park a caravan without getting any permission first then you should know that's wrong.

Once people start thinking they can do what the f*** they like in this country then we're really finished. The scroungers, the travellers, the looters, the tax dodgers all need to be brought into line.

Absolutely, but the law took away their traditional stopping places first - which is why both sides need to put their hands up and say 'hey, my bad' and sort the damn problem out.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Maybe the travellers should stopping robbing stuff and try and get back some respect from the rest of the country?

There was a proposal to create a site not far from where I live for static caravans for travellers. The opposition was overwhelming, not because of the people themselves but because of the crime and anti-social behaviour that goes on.

 

[timdogman]

Maybe the travellers should stopping robbing stuff and try and get back some respect from the rest of the country?

There was a proposal to create a site not far from where I live for static caravans for travellers. The opposition was overwhelming, not because of the people themselves but because of the crime and anti-social behaviour that goes on.

I'll let Queen Victoria answer this one (1836) "Whenever any poor Gipsies are encamped anywhere and crimes and robberies etc occur, it is invariably laid to their account, which is shocking; and if they are always looked upon as vagabonds, how can they become good people? I trust in heaven that the day may come when I may do something for these poor people"

In 1908 a film was made by D.W.Griffith called 'The Adventures of Dollie' which perpetuated a long standing myth that Gypsies steal children - there has never been a recorded case of a gypsy stealing a child.

If for the last five centuries you've been guilty through no jury only heresay of crimes you did not commit, I expect you'd be pretty f***ing pissed at the world. The Jews ain't got shit on the gypsies - both were interred in concentration camps during WWII - one race got museums, monuments and hollywood blockbusters - the other is still interred.

I think respect for them is long over due, they've been waiting centuries mate.

 

[Bwian]

I'll let Queen Victoria answer this one (1836) "Whenever any poor Gipsies are encamped anywhere and crimes and robberies etc occur, it is invariably laid to their account, which is shocking; and if they are always looked upon as vagabonds, how can they become good people? I trust in heaven that the day may come when I may do something for these poor people"

In 1908 a film was made by D.W.Griffith called 'The Adventures of Dollie' which perpetuated a long standing myth that Gypsies steal children - there has never been a recorded case of a gypsy stealing a child.

If for the last five centuries you've been guilty through no jury only heresay of crimes you did not commit, I expect you'd be pretty f***ing pissed at the world. The Jews ain't got shit on the gypsies - both were interred in concentration camps during WWII - one race got museums, monuments and hollywood blockbusters - the other is still interred.

I think respect for them is long over due, they've been waiting centuries mate.

A serious question: Why are you so supportive of these people?

As for respect, that is earned and I haven't seen anything about them that deserves my respect.

 

[bhaexpress]

A similar thing happened here a couple of years ago. Somebody bought some farm land and has allowed some travellers to move on to it. It could be a coincidence but the crime rate in the area has shot up since they moved in. It's also illegal by the way. Frankly there must be some land in the Out Hebrides that they'd like to live on.

 

[User removed 4]

On government run traveller sites they do pay council tax - if this site was granted planning permission they would have to pay tax. Most of them do have jobs and pay tax on their wages also. Why should they get a house? Why can't they live in caravans and travel? The level of mis-information where it comes to gypsies is just absurd.

Correct, it's all coming from you.

 

[User removed 4]

I agree - certainly there needs to be a better dialogue between travellers, planners, council and community. I'm currently going through a planning process at the moment - I'm educated to post-grad level and it's a mind f***, I can barely understand it. Sadly a lot of these people can't read or write, so for them it's an impossibility - compromises on all sides are needed and it ain't gonna happen if at every turn someone's calling them scum or making them homeless (vice versa situation applies also).

No,No they're not, whats needed is for them to live within the same rules as the rest of us, or if they find that impossible then perhaps they could go back and live in Ireland.

 

[User removed 4]

Absolutely, but the law took away their traditional stopping places first - which is why both sides need to put their hands up and say 'hey, my bad' and sort the damn problem out.

By "traditional stopping places" do you mean the land belonging to other people that they "traditionally" leave full of scrap metal, rubbish and human excreta ? Your last statement reveals an unbelievable level of rose tintedness, if i'm wrong , then, hey, my bad.

 

[tedebear]

There's a different ruling where it comes to caravans and chalets because they aren't permanent structures. Again, this rule applies to everyone. More than likely, if these families (I think there are 400 or so people in question, 86 separate families) were able to find say 86 different plots of land they could probably get permission granted for a single caravan/chalet. But whether they can afford to buy a small parcel of land is another thing entirely.

And yes they would have to pay tax.

I only want to straighten out the facts here, the level of mis-information and down right racism is just insane. It really is. If I wrote something like 'those f***ing kykes hoarding all their money' or 'n****** do all the murders in the UK' I imagine all sorts of f***ing hell would break loose, I could be arrested, loads of people would be offended and of course those statements have no truth whatsoever - look at Starkey on Newsnight. Some of the statements here are and elsewhere on the internet are much worse - and these people can't even defend themselves.

They have purchased greenbelt land (which they knew at the time), they have not built a single dwelling on it but numerous dwellings (effectively a small estate) and have drastically changed the nature of the land and the sewage, electricity and water requirements for the area.

Personally I'd love to buy some green belt land and build on it. Its cheap as it has no plannning permission, and it would be a great way for us to get some land which we'd love. I couldn't do it though as I know its against the planning regulations.

If they are clinging so desperately to the word traveller - then why aren't they happy to pick up and move on? Why the desperation to set up roots, live like normal people? and throw their women and children infront of the cameras which inevitably turn up? Problem is they want is the land without being contrained by the regular planning regulations and rules of society that contrain the rest of us? They don't want to pay council taxes, they don't have the same standard of living like the rest of society and cause no end of trouble for neighbours. They need to abide or move on.

Personally I think thats the facts, and I'm fairly confident the majoirty of well meaning rational people would understand why they have to move on.
The council offered them houses for gods sake?

These people can and do defend themselves. As an interesting side question why are all the men absent in all of these camera shots, tv shows and or interviews done with these people?

 

[Weststander]

The simple plain fact is this country has planning rules that apply to all - not just us middle class, cash cow mugs. I don't begrudge the travellers a lawful place to reside but flouting the planning laws sets a terrible precedent. You give people an inch and they take a yard.

Exactly.
Doesn't matter if it's gentry, Irish travellers or anyone else, without countryside planning rules, mayhem would ensue, with all rural environments at risk to housing.

And why can't these people pay proper money for permitted development land, with full planning & building control reg's & fees, like everyone else?