Dale Farm Travellers.

[brunswick]

yes there are some criminal and rough elements to travellers, but there are also some good ppl who live alternative lives.

it is so funny how many people :

pay massive council tax bills that were only recently brought in, and do not even goto the local tax,
pay massive mortgage repayments e.g 100k loan to 250k to return.
pay massive bills for gas and electricity so corps make hundreds of MILLIONS of profit.
pay tv license so the bbc can lie and programme minds.
work for a horrible boss so they can pay for the above.

but anyone different is a "pikey" and "smelly."

this is ignorant and stereotypical.

this is one of the best examples of group think.

 

[zefarelly]

Quite agree with Pavillionaire, in addition, a free for all would guarantee the kind of quality construction seen in shanty towns across the third world.

The Napalm idea did cross my mind last night . . .but then I'm a fan of mass sterilisation for chavs and looters as well, so possibly not the populist choice.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe the travellers should stopping robbing stuff and try and get back some respect from the rest of the country?

The rest of the country? The same group whose members were rioting and looting a few weeks back?

 

[zefarelly]

Brunswick, I agree with most of what you say, but a majority of us are forced into the situation. as a homeowner in a town whats the options other than utility bills and a mortgage?

It was only 20 years ago one could pay a mortgage monthly, in cash at the building society, they won't entertain the idea now.

As a democracy we should all abide by the same laws, If you don't like it , register, vota and make it change, anarchy isn't generally the accepted rule.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hope people can see the futility of this eviction exercise. Everyone mentions taxes, or lack of them, when it comes to the traveller community. The estimated total cost of this exercise will top £15 million once it's complete. That's £15 million of tax payers money to simply move the problem on and in effect postpone the who sorry episode for a few more years and probably with a different council. This is not to mention the indirect costs of breaking up communities, messing with children's education etc.

Sadly, and yet again, we go short term and do not look for the smart solution. .....at a huge financial cost to us all.

So where does the problem lie?

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

but anyone different is a "pikey" and "smelly."

this is ignorant and stereotypical..

Says the bloke who said that padded seats at football is "gay".

Weirdo hypocrite.

 

[bhaexpress]

They have purchased greenbelt land (which they knew at the time), they have not built a single dwelling on it but numerous dwellings (effectively a small estate) and have drastically changed the nature of the land and the sewage, electricity and water requirements for the area.

Thants' the crux of it really, it's not the 'fact' that they are responsible for criminal and antisocial behaviour it's that they are living on land that was not meant to be used for dwellings of any sort. That as a rule travellers seem to bring with them problems to the area they have moved into that hither to weren't there is heresay (of course).

 

[pork pie]

To me, the answer is simple.

If the scum want to stay there, they should let them.

Surely it would be easier to erect barbed wire fences around the place and keep them all there? It would be great to round up the rest of their kind who infest parts of our Country, and put them there as well. Job done!

Think of how much the nation would save in police costs (to which they contribute nothing!), by having them all in one place.

 

[User removed 4]

I hope people can see the futility of this eviction exercise. Everyone mentions taxes, or lack of them, when it comes to the traveller community. The estimated total cost of this exercise will top £15 million once it's complete. That's £15 million of tax payers money to simply move the problem on and in effect postpone the who sorry episode for a few more years and probably with a different council. This is not to mention the indirect costs of breaking up communities, messing with children's education etc.

Sadly, and yet again, we go short term and do not look for the smart solution. .....at a huge financial cost to us all.

So where does the problem lie?

Sadly HT with people like you who feel able to dismiss the problem out of hand from the safety of a town house in Hove, these people are not our problem, or they wouldnt be if we introduced similar laws to Ireland to deal with them, there is a specific area in Ireland where the majority come from , I watched a documentary on them a couple of years ago, you should see the houses they all own back there, and please, seriously , for once can you stop this hand wringing bollocks about breaking up communities, these people are supposedly travellers, if so they should be used to it, whats needed is for the government to grow some backbone and introduce firm laws to deal with the problem, which you would agree with had they all pitched up on hove lawns.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

pay massive council tax bills that were only recently brought in, and do not even goto the local tax,
pay massive mortgage repayments e.g 100k loan to 250k to return.
pay massive bills for gas and electricity so corps make hundreds of MILLIONS of profit.
pay tv license so the bbc can lie and programme minds.
work for a horrible boss so they can pay for the above.

You seem to think that anyone with the above lifestyle has been conned in to it ? Personally I like having my own home and equally I like to be warm in it and use my electrical gadgets. I, like most people, pay the TV license to watch TV - I'm not brainwashed by the BBC - I use a number of sources for my current affairs. Oh, and I quite like my boss.

I've got a feeling you're a hypocrite - I'd imagine you have a mortgage or at least pay rent to a nasty greedy landlord. You pay money to watch the football thus helping fund greedy footballer wages. I assume you steal your gas and electric rather than pay the corporations ? And I hope you never set foot in one of the big supermarkets ? Or indeed have a bank account ?

Just once, stop looking for a conspiracy and assuming everyone is sleep walking into some kind of hell and accept a lot of us LIKE to live our lives this way. I work to have a nice home, nice stuff and nice holidays and that's what I CHOOSE to do.

I have no problem with anyone deciding to live their lives another way but they should live within the law regardless.

 

[gjh1971]

On this occasion, the Dale Farm area in in the middle of nowhere and isolated from any nearby town, apart from a handful of country houses. Surely it is best to keep the problem in one cordoned off area then to disipate the problem through the rest of the nearby towns onto municipal parks and gardens.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

The thing that made me shout at the telly yesterday was the argument from one lady who said that she'd been there for 10 years and now cannot understand why she is being made to leave now. What she failed to mention / realise was that she had been living there illegally for the last 10 years. The fact is that we've been too lenient on these people for the last 10 years. No sympathy. We have to abide by the law, so why can't they?

As for another argument that's been banded about that they can't afford proper housing - having watched My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding (many at Dale Farm), these families were spending 20+ grand on the dress alone, so that argument has to be blown out of the water straight away!

 

[zefarelly]

If they bought a house and a large garden as anti social as it may be considered by neighbours, they could all live there, I'm not aware of a law which says how many people can or can't live in a house?

and it would be legal. . . destruction of green belt land is wrong, yes the tax payer has to finance legal action etc and its very expensive, but thats an establishment issue and the same can be said for hundreds of other issues.

the underlying issue is one of conformity and acceptance, on both sides. people need a place to live. the very fact the issue has been ongoing for hundreds of years tell you a lot. it aint going away in a hurry. the families don't and won't conform, the authorities won't break the law to help them, that would nly put the message out to everyone else that anarchy rules.

 

[Gritt23]

They can live with the Redgraves (and any other bleeding heart luvvies) at their many country pads. Job done.

I do always wonder how the likes of Redgrave actually remove themselves from the scene when it all goes wrong. At what point do they sneak off, waving goodbye to their new friends with a quick "hope it all goes well, and you find some land somewhere" before heading off to their enormous house with acres of land, and no travellers on there of course. Does anyone ever challenge them and say "if we DO get evicted, can we park up our caravans on your land somewhere?"

 

[Gritt23]

The thing that made me shout at the telly yesterday was the argument from one lady who said that she'd been there for 10 years and now cannot understand why she is being made to leave now. What she failed to mention / realise was that she had been living there illegally for the last 10 years. The fact is that we've been too lenient on these people for the last 10 years. No sympathy. We have to abide by the law, so why can't they?

Exactly.

Committing a crime for a certain amount of years and getting away with it, doesn't and shouldn't make it legal. How would that work? Even Joseph Fritzel didn't claim "they've been down there YEARS now, so that has now become legal imprisonment." NO. IT. DOES. NOT!

 

[Simster]

To me, the answer is simple.

If the scum want to stay there, they should let them.

Surely it would be easier to erect barbed wire fences around the place and keep them all there? It would be great to round up the rest of their kind who infest parts of our Country, and put them there as well. Job done!

Think of how much the nation would save in police costs (to which they contribute nothing!), by having them all in one place.

No thanks. Already we're in a situation where the police don't go into pikey compounds without serious levels of backup. I hired a bloke with a JCB once and was baffled when he started chaining down his digger onto the back of his lorry whilst he came inside for a cup of tea at lunchtime. He explained it was because he had mates who had suffered at the hands of pikeys who literally nick diggers off idle lorries with their own crane lorries. When they end up in pikey compounds, the police won't go in and do anything about it, despite the fact the JCB is KNOWN to be in there thanks to the JCB on board tracking device.

Also knew a pub landlady who called the police to do a pretend sweep on the pub because she was being threatened by pikeys. When the police turned up, they advised her to leave that evening because the pikeys would be back at night.

So I'd love to agree with tim, HT and others but from my own anecdotal evidence there are too many of them who rely on criminal activity and a misplaced idea of being able to do what they like. Where I would agree with timdogman is that we need to seriously have a think about changing some of our laws, because ultimately we are only succeeding in moving the problem along from place to place as things stand. Where the f*** are these people supposed to go?

 

[The Large One]

whats needed is for the government to grow some backbone and introduce firm laws to deal with the problem,

Such as? Confiscation of goods? Imprisonment? Fine, but these laws are in place now, and yet...?

which you would agree with had they all pitched up on hove lawns.

Don't knock it - there's a Conservative councillor in Hove suggesting just that.

 

[Scampi]

yes there are some criminal and rough elements to travellers, but there are also some good ppl who live alternative lives.

it is so funny how many people :

pay massive council tax bills that were only recently brought in, and do not even goto the local tax,
pay massive mortgage repayments e.g 100k loan to 250k to return.
pay massive bills for gas and electricity so corps make hundreds of MILLIONS of profit.
pay tv license so the bbc can lie and programme minds.
work for a horrible boss so they can pay for the above.

but anyone different is a "pikey" and "smelly."

this is ignorant and stereotypical.

this is one of the best examples of group think.

God help us, he's off again.

 

[User removed 4]

Such as? Confiscation of goods? Imprisonment? Fine, but these laws are in place now, and yet...?

Whatever is needed, and rigorous application of them.

 

[User removed 4]

Where the f*** are these people supposed to go?

Ireland, and before you quote European laws at me, Italy did it successfully with Romanian Gypsies, there was a lot of talk about imposing sanctions on Italy at the time etc, what's happened? Nothing.