Dale Farm Travellers.

[User removed 4]

Great lengths? Like the widespread media coverage they get? Jesus, the poor bastards are lucky to get Vanessa Redgrave and David Essex helping them attain a voice. They've got f*** all, and you'd wish they had f***ing less. As for shitting in your garden, I f***ing would, because you've demonstrated nothing but ignorance, hate, vile, sweeping generalisations and unfounded accusations. Given the choice of you as my neighbour or a gypsy encampment? It's a no brainer. If some gypsies rocked up next door, I'd walk over, introduce myself as I would anyother person - maybe take them a cake. That's what you do for neighbours isn't it? I bet you and your cronies jeered, sneered and heckled insults. And you wonder why there's shit in your garden.

Are you for real ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

i am only attacking the ppl on here who are in group think - judging and being stereotypical.

my post did not make out you are conned into anything, just that each person has the right to choose their lifestyle.

after paying over 400k tax in my life in tax to a bunch of idiots, i have worked out a life where i pay no mortgage, rent, bills, or tax, but live extremely comfortably with lots of amazing stuff and comforts at no one elses expense - work that one out - or does it not fit into your box?

never heard of free energy? there are loads of alternatives.

i try and steer away from supermarkets due to many reasons, and i bank and invest with co-op.

if you think paying completely over the top for tax and bills is NOT sleep walking - then i am worried for your mental state.

unlike you i question the law when i feel it stupid.

i neither smell nor hurt or take from anyone else, and am deemed by many i know above average intelligence.

you, are a judgmental fool.

Now I know you've lost your marbles. You pay NO tax ? Even VAT or council tax ? So you can live comfortably which means you must have some sort of income and it doesn't come from the state - you would pay tax on that income unless it was within the personal allowance which I struggle to believe.

On the assumption you don't pay ANY tax ( and I don't believe that ), don't you think it's rather selfish that others pay for you to have a police force to deal with crime, provide lighting on the streets, provide a health service ?

Where have I said you shouldn't question a bad law ? You should but purposely breaking it isn't generally acceptable and it isn't in the Dale Farm case.

 

[xenophon]

Now I know you've lost your marbles. You pay NO tax ? Even VAT or council tax ? So you can live comfortably which means you must have some sort of income and it doesn't come from the state - you would pay tax on that income unless it was within the personal allowance which I struggle to believe.

I've got it, he's Philip Green

 

[User removed 4]

Let them stay I say, move them on and they will be back on the road, turning up somewhere else.

Their kids are at school there, which is progress when you consider traveller kids have the lowest academic achievement of any social group.

A bit of humanity to one's fellow man never hurt anybody

As long as it's not next to you !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

which bit of "at no one elses expense" did you not understand?

If he doesn't pay tax then he's living at the tax payers expence even if the only thing he does is visit a doctor or a dentist.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've got it, he's Philip Green

Silly me - I hadn't thought of that !

 

[xenophon]

As long as it's not next to you !

They'd struggle to get them caravans up three flights of stairs LOL

Travellers don't bother me, I grew up on a council estate where quite a few families were first settled, they were rough but their loyalty and codes of honour were exemplary. So, I've kind of answered your question, I have lived beside them and wasn't bothered. Same for today.

Live and let live.

 

[timdogman]

Are you for real ?

Yeah, apart from I've never baked a cake before. It would be an improvement for Fishersgate Rec, and maybe they could teach the scoundrels who arson the Community Centre here a few lessons.

 

[User removed 4]

They'd struggle to get them caravans up three flights of stairs LOL

Travellers don't bother me, I grew up on a council estate where quite a few families were first settled, they were rough but their loyalty and codes of honour were exemplary. So, I've kind of answered your question, I have lived beside them and wasn't bothered. Same for today.

Live and let live.

I know what your saying , but i dont agree dale farm or similar is the same as having a few families settled on your estate.

 

[xenophon]

They were bad to start with, we moved to the new estate before the travellers turned up. The caravans were there for ages, then they had a row of six houses condemned after they tried to knock the interior walls of each out to make a big caravan. But, I was a little kid and I found them incredibly exciting. My auld fella was/is respectful of all creeds, and if he was ok with them then it was good enough for me. 30 odd years on and they are model citizens, without losing their unique identity.

With Dale Farm - they are settled, been there for years, why move them now? Doesn't make sense to me, but the eviction will probably attract the usual rent-a-mob from the black bloc or whatever, so the whole thing will go tits up and there will be blood. I hope not though.

 

[User removed 4]

They were bad to start with, we moved to the new estate before the travellers turned up. The caravans were there for ages, then they had a row of six houses condemned after they tried to knock the interior walls of each out to make a big caravan. But, I was a little kid and I found them incredibly exciting. My auld fella was/is respectful of all creeds, and if he was ok with them then it was good enough for me. 30 odd years on and they are model citizens, without losing their unique identity.

With Dale Farm - they are settled, been there for years, why move them now? Doesn't make sense to me, but the eviction will probably attract the usual rent-a-mob from the black bloc or whatever, so the whole thing will go tits up and there will be blood. I hope not though.

i would agree with you if the travellers werent making the locals lives a misery, I'm going to PM you anyway about something else.

 

[brunswick]

On the assumption you don't pay ANY tax ( and I don't believe that ), don't you think it's rather selfish that others pay for you to have a police force to deal with crime, provide lighting on the streets, provide a health service ?

Where have I said you shouldn't question a bad law ? You should but purposely breaking it isn't generally acceptable and it isn't in the Dale Farm case.

i do not use the police force, nor the NHS, and believe in neither of these things. And i am sure the 400k odd UK tax i have paid is far from selfish - and will go some towards some street lights. I think you are presuming that my income comes from the UK, and even that i am in the UK - i might not be. All your points show the box your mind is tightly within.

there are many good ways to make money without a boss/9-5/ etc.

but i agree that if people in DF are making a mess and being noisy and stealing then there is an issue. But what to do? move them on does nothing. One cannot force them to live in the system, it is a societal problem - why do they not want to be a part of it, or why are the not able to be a part of it (if they desired).

brushing them under the carpet or punishing them will do nothing long term.

 

[bhaexpress]

The problem is that the caravans remind us of Crystal Paupers so of course we despise them.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

i do not use the police force, nor the NHS, and believe in neither of these things. And i am sure the 400k odd UK tax i have paid is far from selfish - and will go some towards some street lights. I think you are presuming that my income comes from the UK, and even that i am in the UK - i might not be. All your points show the box your mind is tightly within.

Good grief
It doesn't matter where you live you WILL use some tax supplied service. You DO use the police even it isn't directly. You imply you don't live in the UK so how will your £400k of tax pay for the services in the country you do live in ?

Quite frankly you're an idiot if you really believe you live outside society with no responsibility to that society regardless if it's in the UK, Europe, Russia or even Iran.

Quite clearly you're a liar - suggestion after suggestion but no facts.

 

[Bwian]

Everyone deserves a defence, even murderers. Certainly their contribution to culture deserves respect. I'm sure you're all happy to go and listen to some manouche, or flamenco in some middle class restaurant, or hang Alfred Munnings paintings depicting some romantic gypsy encampment. A person deserves respect, and not an immediate dismissal. What you're saying is that everyone of them doesn't deserve your respect because they haven't earned it. So I don't deserve your respect, because I haven't done something amazing for you? Get real.

You're telling me to get real?

How is life in Utopia these days?

 

[brunswick]

Good grief
It doesn't matter where you live you WILL use some tax supplied service. You DO use the police even it isn't directly. You imply you don't live in the UK so how will your £400k of tax pay for the services in the country you do live in ?

Quite frankly you're an idiot if you really believe you live outside society with no responsibility to that society regardless if it's in the UK, Europe, Russia or even Iran.

Quite clearly you're a liar - suggestion after suggestion but no facts.

i have not lied once in this thread. if you could list the services that i use that my 400k tax has not covered i would like to see that list.

if your mind really does believe your first sentence then i am in shock. sit on it a while.

i never said i don't have responsibility to society, we all have, this is where much of my work and time comes in.....it does not mean i want to be a part of bills, tax, bosses, 9-5 etc tho.

i will not give you facts and proof about my personal life as you are full of insults and judgments - why would i? this is an internet forum and i seek no connection with you at all. weirdo.

i came into this thread as there was a general feeling of "pay tax or your a pikey smelly" type vibe - and this is group think.

 

[kip]

Yeah, apart from I've never baked a cake before. It would be an improvement for Fishersgate Rec, and maybe they could teach the scoundrels who arson the Community Centre here a few lessons.

Can I just say I've sat here and read all your posts and have had a very entertaining half hour. I havn't agreed with a word you have said because it is very clear for all right minded people too see that pikeys are scum. I hope you have a nice life..

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I will just interject here in response to a couple of specific points.

Firstly this whole "send them back to Ireland" thing. A very large number of so-called Irish travellers in this country were actually born here. People hear the Irish accents and assume they must be from there, but in fact it's just a product of living in a fairly insular community. These are British citizens with UK passports and therefore couldn't be deported anywhere else even if it wasn't a huge human rights issue.

Secondly the idea that police won't go into traveller sites without massive numbers: certainly there are circumstances in which it might be tricky, but there's certainly no generic policy of avoidance at all costs. I've wandered into sites on plenty of occasions to talk to people or look for stuff and had entirely sociable and reasonable conversations. I find, as with most situations, people tend to respond to you according to how you treat them. Not always, but certainly as a general rule. I've met some absolutely lovely travellers, as well as some complete nightmare ones. Frankly, the last time I dealt with a lad from a traveller background, he was by far the best behaved individual in the cells that night- he was quiet, pleasant, compliant, and certainly wasn't impressed by all the pissed, screaming women being brought in for being D&D. I'm not saying there aren't some thieving travellers about, but then again there are some idiot football fans, doesn't make us all morons though...

Just responding to those two points in particular. The rest, I shall leave to you to debate.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

i have worked out a life where i pay no mortgage, rent, bills, or tax,

and i bank and invest with co-op.

Your words not mine. So you pay no tax but still invest ? You have quite clearly stated you pay NO tax anymore so in other words you avoid paying tax on your investments ? Maybe you really are Phillip Green.

Of course you use services paid for by the tax payer - pavements, police ( they carry out a function regardless if you contact them directly ), street lighting. I assume if you fall ill you won't be going to see a doctor ? How do you get to the Amex ? Car or bike - roads paid for by tax payers. Walk - pavements paid for by tax payers. Train - railways subsudised by tax payers.

Ridiculous - much like your conspiracy theories for which you've never provided one shred of evidence.

 

[timdogman]

I will just interject here in response to a couple of specific points.

Firstly this whole "send them back to Ireland" thing. A very large number of so-called Irish travellers in this country were actually born here. People hear the Irish accents and assume they must be from there, but in fact it's just a product of living in a fairly insular community. These are British citizens with UK passports and therefore couldn't be deported anywhere else even if it wasn't a huge human rights issue.

Secondly the idea that police won't go into traveller sites without massive numbers: certainly there are circumstances in which it might be tricky, but there's certainly no generic policy of avoidance at all costs. I've wandered into sites on plenty of occasions to talk to people or look for stuff and had entirely sociable and reasonable conversations. I find, as with most situations, people tend to respond to you according to how you treat them. Not always, but certainly as a general rule. I've met some absolutely lovely travellers, as well as some complete nightmare ones. Frankly, the last time I dealt with a lad from a traveller background, he was by far the best behaved individual in the cells that night- he was quiet, pleasant, compliant, and certainly wasn't impressed by all the pissed, screaming women being brought in for being D&D. I'm not saying there aren't some thieving travellers about, but then again there are some idiot football fans, doesn't make us all morons though...

Just responding to those two points in particular. The rest, I shall leave to you to debate.

Regrettably there are many on this board that probably won't believe a police officer, because they are apparently 'right minded' - I tend to try and use both the left, right, front and back parts of my brain. I wish others would.

If 'kip' hasn't agreed with a single word I've argued, despite most of them being very reasoned arguments based on historical evidence, fact and human rights, then he or she is obviously not only more informed than me, but a genius of the highest calibre. Congratulations!

I'm not gonna post any more on this subject, so you can mourn the entertainment and celebrate the retirement of the obviously 'lefty PC hippy' or 'n****r lover' or what ever label you'd care to attach. People seem to like putting you in categories, guess it helps when you're striving for that racial purity. However, if one single person has thought, hang on this guy has some valid points here, he may not be entirely correct, but I agree with this or that, I should learn more on the issue, then it would have been worthwhile.

Latcho drom.