[Albion] Thomas Tuchel **Appointed England Manager 15/10/24**

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

WTF? Please provide the evidence that they lost 7 out of the first 9 games he started, because that sounds like more made up bullshit.

David Beckham - Detailed stats

This is the performance data of David Beckham of Karriereende. It shows the data (goals, bookings, etc.) at {vereinsZuweisung} in the 06/07 season.

www.transfermarkt.com

Those "first" 9 games he started were over a time period than ran from August to March, and it would be pretty difficult to lose 7 of the first 9, when of the 14 games he started that season they only lost 3.

 

[rippleman]

I disagree. Sarah Weigman won the Euros with England and I didn't see anyone complaining about her nationality afterwards.

Absolutely (except her name is Sarina!) and let's not forget that the USA national team recruited IMO the best female coach in world football, Englishwoman Emma Hayes, and she led them to an Olympic gold medal.

This is a question of principle. Should a national side have a manager / head coach from that country? Ideally yes but if there isn't anybody up to the job then there is precedent in football and in other sports.

 

[Silverhatch]

Please just formulate a structure with some flexibility and then pick a team/squad with NO favour to club size/legacy. Have the f***ing balls to drop Liverpool/City players in favour of Brighton/Ipswich players if they produce a better, winning side. Just win a f***ing tournament in the here and now and STOP f***ing planning for 2/4 years time.

 

[Professor Plum]

Please just formulate a structure with some flexibility and then pick a team/squad with NO favour to club size/legacy. Have the f***ing balls to drop Liverpool/City players in favour of Brighton/Ipswich players if they produce a better, winning side. Just win a f***ing tournament in the here and now and STOP f***ing planning for 2/4 years time.

I can imagine that being copied to some Scottish fans forum followed by a line of laughing emojis.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Please just formulate a structure with some flexibility and then pick a team/squad with NO favour to club size/legacy. Have the f***ing balls to drop Liverpool/City players in favour of Brighton/Ipswich players if they produce a better, winning side. Just win a f***ing tournament in the here and now and STOP f***ing planning for 2/4 years time.

With the players we currently have we are a country that should be quarter finals of major tournaments absolute minimum, but, in reality should be final 4. We have, however, no God given rights to beat the likes of France and Spain (in Euros or WC), Argentina or Brazil. So in that respect Southgate achieved exactly to our potential, and multiple times.

To win a tournament we are going to have to up those fine margins. Better tactics, more composure and belief, creativity but minimal mistakes is some of it, but also we have gaps that need plugging. I'm unconvinced by our goalkeepers and centre backs and we have next to no left back options that are credible. We have too many players who *can* play winger / ACM / number 10 and, as we saw against Greece, trying to play them all is a disaster.

Sorry to say that I don't think Tuchel is the man to plug that first gap and deliver tactics and composure. But I don't think we'll have the right to expect to win silverware until the squad is more balanced and there's no one around who realistically looks like doing that. Rico Lewis? Jarad Branthwaite? Jason Steele? Hmmm.

 

[Silverhatch]

With the players we currently have we are a country that should be quarter finals of major tournaments absolute minimum, but, in reality should be final 4. We have, however, no God given rights to beat the likes of France and Spain (in Euros or WC), Argentina or Brazil. So in that respect Southgate achieved exactly to our potential, and multiple times.

To win a tournament we are going to have to up those fine margins. Better tactics, more composure and belief, creativity but minimal mistakes is some of it, but also we have gaps that need plugging. I'm unconvinced by our goalkeepers and centre backs and we have next to no left back options that are credible. We have too many players who *can* play winger / ACM / number 10 and, as we saw against Greece, trying to play them all is a disaster.

Sorry to say that I don't think Tuchel is the man to plug that first gap and deliver tactics and composure. But I don't think we'll have the right to expect to win silverware until the squad is more balanced and there's no one around who realistically looks like doing that. Rico Lewis? Jarad Branthwaite? Jason Steele? Hmmm.

If your overriding tactic is to play out from the back, Jason Steele is a perfect example of a player who should play rather than Pickford or Pope.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If your overriding tactic is to play out from the back, Jason Steele is a perfect example of a player who should play rather than Pickford or Pope.

100% which is why De Zerbi used him so much. But I don't see Tuchel playing prime RDZ ball.

My point overall, however, was, as delighted as I was that Carsley dropped Pickford after his Greece horror show the next cab off the rank was, er, Wayne Henderson.

 

[Silverhatch]

100% which is why De Zerbi used him so much. But I don't see Tuchel playing prime RDZ ball.

My point overall, however, was, as delighted as I was that Carsley dropped Pickford after his Greece horror show the next cab off the rank was, er, Wayne Henderson.

Exactly. Pick a formation, tactics and style (with in-built flexibility) and then pick the players to implement the plan. FFS avoid the endless Gerrard /Lampard, Foden/Bellingham wankfests. If a big name (or several) needs to be jettisoned then so be it.

 

[Han Solo]

If your overriding tactic is to play out from the back, Jason Steele is a perfect example of a player who should play rather than Pickford or Pope.

Jason Steele as your starting goalie...

ITS COMING HOME

 

[Withdean South Stand]

One of the things I like most about the appointment of Tuchel is that he won't suffer fools. He won't be playing a goalkeeper who can't keep his goal, for example. Pickford won't play under Tuchel, I'm sure. He might get the odd friendly or benefit from an injury crisis - but he won't be the undisputed number 1 and I hope he's not even in the squad when everyone is fit and available. I'd even rather see Relegation Ramsdale in the squad/team than Twitchy Pickford.

 

[severnside gull]

Not especially impressed with Tuchel but being as how he’s proper wound-up the Daily Fail and the frogfaced fascist I’m now 100% behind his appointment

 

[Justice]

Jason Steele as your starting goalie...

ITS COMING HOME

Unfortunately opposition players like to shoot at the goal.

 

[Triggaaar]

Rio Ferdinand did. This is what turned me off England many years ago. He said England derserved to win tournaments.......without giving any meaningful explanation when pressed on this matter.

Ok so that's one person. Can we get a few thousand more so we can state it as what England fans thought?

 

[Silverhatch]

Jason Steele as your starting goalie...

ITS COMING HOME

Why the f*** not! He’s definitely the best English keeper with a ball at his feet. It’s an example of where the national team always f***ing fails. IF (IF) a national coach wants the keeper to be a playmaker then don’t play Pickford, Pope et al and if Jason Steele (a premier league keeper) is the only choice… f***ing PLAY HIM

 

[Randy McNob]

If you're going to base your opinion on just the 4 games of one tournament and not consider the other 38 of the 42 games that Capello took charge of, then I'd politely suggest that that you're picking and choosing to fit your argument.

But I'll play along. Seeing as it's Germany we eventually went out to in that 2010 tournament, let's use that country with another of England's foreign managers. Having seen the Albion lose at Sixfields the night before, I was there in Munich and witnessed England's 1-5 win firsthand. So using your style of argument, I'm just going to pick one game to say that Sven was our greatest ever manager because it was probably our greatest ever away win and especially the context in which we did it. What do you mean when you say that's unrealistic to ignore the other 66 games that Sven took charge of? That doesn't matter - I'm just going to pick the one I like the most to fit.

Now I don't know how long your lifetime has been, but as disappointing as 2010's exit was despite not losing a group game, it wasn't the worst.
In the 20 years and 10 tournaments after Euro 96 and before Southgate took charge , here's how we did with the manager in charge.

WC 1998 - R16 (Hoddle)
Euro 2000 - Group (Keegan)
WC 2002 - QF (Eriksson)
Euro 2004 - QF (Eriksson)
WC 2006 - QF (Eriksson)
Euro 2008 - Did Not Qualify (McClaren)
WC 2010 - R16 (Capello)
Euro 2012 - QF (Hodgson)
WC 2014 - Group (Hodgson)
Euro 2016 - R16 (Hodgson)

The 4 tournaments with foreign managers? 3 QF and 1 R16.
The 6 tournaments with English managers? 1 QF, 2 R16, 2 Group and 1 DNQ.

So the foreign manager experiment didn't fail then. Very much the opposite.

slight misrepresentation of what I said, i'm not merely cherry picking specific games, I am saying I only consider performances at tournaments disregarding qualifying. I don't see how, post poor tournament and assesing what went wrong, how we qualified for said tournament bears any relevance.

Seems like you are an ardent stats man but you can use / twist stats to prove anything. how about: England's best strikers of recent times are David Nugent and Francis Jeffers as they both have 100% scoring records, or how about Joe Calzaghe was a better boxer than Ali and Tyson, he never lost whereas the other 2 lost 5/6 of their bouts

 

[Easy 10]

What makes English men's football so different when it comes to appointing a foreign manager compared to women's football, rugby, cricket, athletics, etc?

And could that reason be why they've not won anything and the ones I listed have?

Quite simple really. Football (mens) is the National Sport. It carries more weight, more history, and more fans than the rest of the sports you list put together. It means more to more people.

As to the reason we haven't won anything, you're probably right. Had we appointed (say) Ancelotti, Mourninho or Pep 8 years ago or before, then maybe we'd have won something by now. Quite possibly. I'm still in the camp of believing it should always be an englishman in charge though. We should stand or fall by our own indigenous talents, not those of others.

 

[Triggaaar]

Does anyone else think it a tad strange that we are being lectured on the subject of an England manager by a Swede?

It would be strange, but given the actual individual, it was entirely predicted.

 

[Randy McNob]

The claim was that should have won tournaments blindfolded with Owen as the main man. I disagree.

We haven't won a tournament since 1966 and yes, England fans think we should have won one in that time, but that doesn't mean we went into any specific tournament thinking we should have won it (in Owen's time).

Regarding Southgate getting us to 2 finals and being vilified: The reason fans didn't want Southgate to stay is not because we didn't win the tournaments, it's because we weren't playing good enough football. We got to the final this year by getting lucky with the draw. We drew 0-0 with Slovenia and would have been on the harder side of the draw if Denmark had won their game against Serbia. We were the favourites for every game we played until the final and we looked crap in most of them.

Had we been the best team in the tournament, and been unlucky in the final, we'd all be wanting him to stay.

Ah yes, the old 'Southgate is just lucky' chestnut, I beg to differ. Southgate's cautious tactics, whilst not pretty, ensured we won our group and hence, avoided bigger nation i.e. Germany, in the 2nd round = good management. Compare and contrast - Crapello 2010, despite having the EASYest group imaginable, still finished 2nd (behind USA), as a consequence drew Germany, and got thumped = bad management.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ok so that's one person. Can we get a few thousand more so we can state it as what England fans thought?

If you want. One senior player’s entitlement is enough for me.

 

[Triggaaar]

Ah yes, the old 'Southgate is just lucky' chestnut, I beg to differ. Southgate's cautious tactics, whilst not pretty, ensured we won our group

If Denmark had beaten Serbia, we wouldn't have won our group. You are simply wrong to say that it was Southgate's tactics that won it, with no help from Denmark.