[Albion] Thomas Tuchel **Appointed England Manager 15/10/24**

[Half Time Pies]

I agree, that’s not my position at all, my position is that the England manager can be any nationality apart from German. Not because I have anything against Germans or Germany, far from it. However football without rivalry at any level is just a hobby, and you do NOT employ your greatest rival into your top job.
Club level is littered with examples of this, Benitez at Everton as one, the moment anything goes wrong they are doomed because they’re doomed from the start.

What rivalry?! For a rivalry to exist it has to surely be a two way thing, yet I don't think the Germans think of us as rivals, they would probably more likely consider the Netherlands or Italy as their traditional footballing rivals.

 

[Weststander]

A Tuchel-esque formation according to the BBC. Looks more secure defensively than this last week’s Carsley version.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, Michael Owen was a goal scorer. As was his rivals, Raul and Ronaldo. And yet some people think England should have won tournaments "blindfolded" with Owen as the main man?

Where is your evidence that we think we should have won tournaments blindfolded? Which tournament did we even think we should have won? You're making crap up.

Real Madrid dropped David Beckham in his final season at the club after losing seven of the first nine games where he started. Thats why they dropped him

WTF? Please provide the evidence that they lost 7 out of the first 9 games he started, because that sounds like more made up bullshit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

England - f*** all to do with BHA, but you knew that.

I was comparing Germans, not teams. Like you care.

 

[Klaas]

Where is your evidence that we think we should have won tournaments blindfolded? Which tournament did we even think we should have won? You're making crap up.

With the greatest respect England fans DO expect to win tournaments and loudly proclaim so. Our last manager got us to two major finals and a semi, and was vilified.

 

[Han Solo]

Where is your evidence that we think we should have won tournaments blindfolded? Which tournament did we even think we should have won? You're making crap up.





WTF? Please provide the evidence that they lost 7 out of the first 9 games he started, because that sounds like more made up bullshit.

David Beckham - Detailed stats

This is the performance data of David Beckham of Karriereende. It shows the data (goals, bookings, etc.) at {vereinsZuweisung} in the 06/07 season.

www.transfermarkt.com

As for the first question:

No, let's have it right, you first peresented a table proclaiming Capello to be the best England manager ever, then when the stupifity of that is pointed out i.e. by that you are saying Capello was better than Sir Bobby and El Tel you disown the silly table and change your angle.

and yes, I stand by worse manager re: Sven, considering the players available. He was brought in to change the National game after we were tactically inept after Keegan, and he failed miserably despite having a squad oozing with top players: Owen, Rooney, Rio, Terry, Ash Cole, Gerrard, Lamps, Beckham, Scholes. Yet Could only muster 2 quarters with that set of players. Any manager could win a tournament blindfolded with those players. And instead of the technical modern football he was supposed to herald we got boring hoofball, the national team went backwards and a golden generation was wasted. Total fraud

...however Trigger, do note that your 'we think we' part of your question is some sort of psychological desire to belong to a collective but doesn't exist in reality. In reality people from England and England fans are various different people with different opinions. There's no "we think", its an illusion. And thats good because then you don't belong to a group of people who believe England could jog home a title because of players like "Owen" etc.

Imho mr McNob (and I'm speaking for myself and not some imaginary self-support group), England had a strong team in those days but many other European teams had as well. 2004 and 2006 were gritty tournaments with high skill levels, high average ages, high number of titles in the squads... England were strong, but others were stronger.

There's no reason why Owen, Rooney, Rio, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham and Scholes blindfolded should beat something like Nesta, Cannavaro, De Rossi, Pirlo, Totti, Del Piero or Couto, Ricardo Carvalho, Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Rui Costa etc. These blindfolded England wins only happens in the Daily Mail. In reality, England has been on the wrong side of the margins, with both English and foreign managers. Its a mix of fear and bad luck. It has nothing to do with the personality of the manager.

This appointment is just a different side of the same coin though. Daily Mail, or whatever the f*** you're most shite right-wing toilet paper is called, basically says "boooo f*** the foreigner" so the pendulum says "well as this fecker isn't English it should be fine". Two equally shite takes because in a lot of cases because at the end of the day the manager can have a fecking Mongolian passport but Danny Mills is still going to fight with Ronaldinho - games are on pitches, not in passports.

 

[Justice]

What rivalry?! For a rivalry to exist it has to surely be a two way thing, yet I don't think the Germans think of us as rivals, they would probably more likely consider the Netherlands or Italy as their traditional footballing rivals.

Germany’s footballing rivals are indeed the Netherlands and they aren’t that serious about it either.

 

[Albion my Albion]

You're comparing the mens game to the womens though. They're almost different sports, with entirely different histories and a largely different following.

I've heard the "balls" are different.

 

[Brovion]

If you're not too hung up on the last 60 years of hurt then the last few years have shown the England team is not second tier. Imo anyway.

Well I don't see how you can't NOT count it. We are better than we were - which isn't saying much. When we can win tournaments and consistently, not every time, but 50% of the time, beat the real top nations when it actually matters, then I'll accept we've 'arrived'.

IMO, although other opinions are available!

 

[keaton]

You're comparing the mens game to the womens though. They're almost different sports, with entirely different histories and a largely different following.

What makes English men's football so different when it comes to appointing a foreign manager compared to women's football, rugby, cricket, athletics, etc?

And could that reason be why they've not won anything and the ones I listed have?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Does anyone else think it a tad strange that we are being lectured on the subject of an England manager by a Swede?

 

[Triggaaar]

With the greatest respect England fans DO expect to win tournaments and loudly proclaim so. Our last manager got us to two major finals and a semi, and was vilified.

The claim was that should have won tournaments blindfolded with Owen as the main man. I disagree.

We haven't won a tournament since 1966 and yes, England fans think we should have won one in that time, but that doesn't mean we went into any specific tournament thinking we should have won it (in Owen's time).

Regarding Southgate getting us to 2 finals and being vilified: The reason fans didn't want Southgate to stay is not because we didn't win the tournaments, it's because we weren't playing good enough football. We got to the final this year by getting lucky with the draw. We drew 0-0 with Slovenia and would have been on the harder side of the draw if Denmark had won their game against Serbia. We were the favourites for every game we played until the final and we looked crap in most of them.

Had we been the best team in the tournament, and been unlucky in the final, we'd all be wanting him to stay.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree, that’s not my position at all, my position is that the England manager can be any nationality apart from German. Not because I have anything against Germans or Germany, far from it. However football without rivalry at any level is just a hobby, and you do NOT employ your greatest rival into your top job.
Club level is littered with examples of this, Benitez at Everton as one, the moment anything goes wrong they are doomed because they’re doomed from the start.

This rivalry only exists from England's side. I know numerous German football fans, none of them feel any sense of rivalry at all; they save this for The Nederlands. To me, this England Germany thing feels weird as I know that it's so one sided, tin pot even; you cannot have a rivalry if one side does not give two hoots.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The claim was that should have won tournaments blindfolded with Owen as the main man. I disagree.

We haven't won a tournament since 1966 and yes, England fans think we should have won one in that time, but that doesn't mean we went into any specific tournament thinking we should have won it (in Owen's time).

Regarding Southgate getting us to 2 finals and being vilified: The reason fans didn't want Southgate to stay is not because we didn't win the tournaments, it's because we weren't playing good enough football. We got to the final this year by getting lucky with the draw. We drew 0-0 with Slovenia and would have been on the harder side of the draw if Denmark had won their game against Serbia. We were the favourites for every game we played until the final and we looked crap in most of them.

Had we been the best team in the tournament, and been unlucky in the final, we'd all be wanting him to stay.

Rio Ferdinand did. This is what turned me off England many years ago. He said England derserved to win tournaments.......without giving any meaningful explanation when pressed on this matter.

 

[schmunk]

This rivalry only exists from England's side. I know numerous German football fans, none of them feel any sense of rivalry at all; they save this for The Nederlands. To me, this England Germany thing feels weird as I know that it's so one sided, tin pot even; you cannot have a rivalry if one side does not give two hoots.

c.f. the putative Brighton/Chelsea 'rivalry'.

 

[Brovion]

Never heard that said out loud before.....supporting England and glory hunting!

Yeah! We support England because we have to, not because we want to! They may be serial under-achievers, they may be at times a load of unlikeable prima-donnas, some of our fellow fans may be arseholes, but like the Albion is our local team so England is our national side. As has been mentioned international football is different to club football, you can't just pick a team a team at random because you saw them on Match of the Day once when you were younger and liked their colours or something.

If you could then I guess the glory hunters would all be supporting someone like Germany, France, Italy, Argentina, Spain or Brazil - the 'Big Five' nations that win things. I know some English people support other nations, but, because international football is different, they usually can provide a family link (like Sussex glory-hunters who say they support Man U 'because my Dad did').

BTW did I mention that my paternal grandmother was French? 'Allez les Bleus ...'

 

[Milano]

What rivalry?! For a rivalry to exist it has to surely be a two way thing, yet I don't think the Germans think of us as rivals, they would probably more likely consider the Netherlands or Italy as their traditional footballing rivals.

Have you ever been to an England v Germany match?

 

[Milano]

I was comparing Germans, not teams. Like you care.

Which is completely irrelivant to the context of this debate.

 

[Justice]

This rivalry only exists from England's side. I know numerous German football fans, none of them feel any sense of rivalry at all; they save this for The Nederlands. To me, this England Germany thing feels weird as I know that it's so one sided, tin pot even; you cannot have a rivalry if one side does not give two hoots.

Reading fans will understand

 

[Questions]

This could set back Anglo German relations for decades.