Occupy demo in London.

[Tyrone Biggums]

they are not allowed near the city.
they are being moved on from st pauls.
they are being kettled and contained.
they are being tarnished by the MSM.
they are being mis labelled by the MSM.
they have been lied to by banks and politicions.
the pm in the uk can only get in with millions of corporate funding for a campaign.
they pay over the top for things so mega corps make more money.
they pay for bail outs so the banks can take more money and give more bonuses.

that, is fascism and dictatorship, not democracy.

And yet they also live in a society where they too could become millionaires with hard work and a good idea.

I sometimes think these people who conduct such protests are those who want everything handed to them because they feel like they are entitled to it.

People are free to not bank with banks. People are free to shop around for the best price for anything they wish to buy.

It all comes down to how hard do you wish to work to achieve anything in life and how much effort you put into finding the best options available.

 

[brunswick]

No it is not. If the majority believe that legal businesses should be able to go about their legal business unimpeded and appoint leaders to employ people to ensure that happens, that is democracy.

the leaders are not appointed.....the game is rigged. most do not deep down believe that legal businesses should take billions of profits at the sake of the general public (BP Exxon Chevron Monsanto Coca-cola British Gas etc etc etc), in many cases giving nothing beneficial to the planet.

e.g british gas produce no gas, they rent pipelines and have a decent billing system - they make billions on their scam, charge so much old ppl die due to cold, but ppl think it is a nice gas supplier who have to pay alot wholesale......they are corrupt and greedy, if people do not know this then it does not change the facts. there are hundred of other examples, people deep down if they knew the truth would not allow or condone.

 

[brunswick]

And yet they also live in a society where they too could become millionaires with hard work and a good idea.

I sometimes think these people who conduct such protests are those who want everything handed to them because they feel like they are entitled to it.

People are free to not bank with banks. People are free to shop around for the best price for anything they wish to buy.

It all comes down to how hard do you wish to work to achieve anything in life and how much effort you put into finding the best options available.

i used to work in business, and the richest most succesful are the ones who are greedy, cold hearted, and backstab......99% of the time. profit is the enemy of honesty.

this is the movement - the system is broken, its foundations are not right. the options available are all bad for the planet. the planet is getting raped so a few get rich....and you say well done?? are you ok?

humans are at essence creators not workers....many here seem to think if someone is not working they are lazy doing nothing. does your mind not have any ideas or creativity? do people need a boss to be given tasks? is this the game?

 

[m20gull]

the leaders are not
e.g british gas produce no gas, they rent pipelines and have a decent billing system - they make billions on their scam, charge so much old ppl die due to cold, but ppl think it is a nice gas supplier who have to pay alot wholesale......they are corrupt and greedy, if people do not know this then it does not change the facts. there are hundred of other examples, people deep down if they knew the truth would not allow or condone.

So British Gas are corrupt, fact, many other examples. So we know what to look for give us one fact about British Gas and one other example from the hundreds.

 

[xenophon]

Cold night last night, not nice going for a shite in a port-a-bog on a chilly morning like that

 

[Arthur]

It is a protest to raise awareness (like most protests).

What are they protesting about?

Here is a link to their website

http://occupylsx.org/?page_id=172

Brilliant thanks but that didn't answer my question. What are they actually hoping/trying to achieve? If it's to raise awareness then I think most people, certainly those in the city already know!

Maybe they're complaining about the fact that St Paul's Cathedral is now seen by most people as a "tourist attraction"?

I don't believe that was its original purpose.

they are not allowed near the city.

Good, let the people who are trying to get us out of this mess do their jobs!

they are being moved on from st pauls.

Good, in the words of the great poet J Lydon "Tourists are money". We need a thriving tourist industry in this country to help it back on it's feet.

they are being kettled and contained.

Did the expression kettled exist before the student protests the other month? But anyway good, see my answer to your first point.

they are being tarnished by the MSM.

Not true. Everything I've read in the media has showed that it's a peaceful protest with women and children there.

they are being mis labelled by the MSM.

As what?

they have been lied to by banks and politicions.

Hold the front page, politician in telling porkies shocker!!!

the pm in the uk can only get in with millions of corporate funding for a campaign.

Oh my days!

they pay over the top for things so mega corps make more money.

See above!

they pay for bail outs so the banks can take more money and give more bonuses.

So what is the alternative? Stop bonuses and all the talent in the city goes elsewhere to ply their trade. Like it or not we need these people to get us out of this mess!

that, is fascism and dictatorship, not democracy.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

i used to work in business, and the richest most succesful are the ones who are greedy, cold hearted, and backstab......99% of the time. profit is the enemy of honesty.

I don't think that's quite true.

There's a lot of rich people who are quite philanthropic with thier money. Bill gates for example.

Tony Bloom wasn't born a millionaire was he? Most people who have met him seem to suggest he's a rather nice chap.

I think you'll find if someones rich and is greedy cold hearted and a backstabber they would be exactly like that even if they were penniless.

this is the movement - the system is broken, its foundations are not right. the options available are all bad for the planet. the planet is getting raped so a few get rich....and you say well done?? are you ok?

Personally i think the system works quite well. He who dares wins.

I'm dead agaisnt rewarding lazy sods with profits from other peoples efforts and risks.

humans are at essence creators not workers....many here seem to think if someone is not working they are lazy doing nothing. does your mind not have any ideas or creativity? do people need a boss to be given tasks? is this the game?

Humans are workers. Our ancestors were hunter gatherers. If we didn't work to feed ourselves we would have died off a long time ago.

Those who think they have some right to sit around thinking while others slave away to provide for them while they do so should be thrown to the wolves so to speak.

 

[jimhigham]

The Occupy Movement in the US has a very clear complaint, as they are seeking the decoupling of corporate wealth from the political process. There was a Supreme Court ruling there that afforded corporations the same constitutional rights as people. This has, in effect, meant that there is no limit on what corporations can pay in political donations. As such, the entire political class there is pretty much corporate sponsored and this is having an enormous effect in terms of legislation against unions and environmental protection.

The cosy relationship between business and politics hasn't been consitutionally approved in the UK in the same way that it has been in the US but it is still very much there. As such, I see the protestors' gripe.

 

[looney]

Whether you want them to or not they are representing something which includes you. It is something that they (and I) feel is important to the continuation of us all. Whether you agree with them that there is a problem is a different matter.

Out of interest do you think the current economic and political system is okay and not in need of some changes?

Economic system would be improved by leaving the EU and revoking all its legislation. Politics would improve by greater transparency and accountability and more devolution of power.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think these protests go deeper than party politics. The protests are about the manipulation of governments (of any persusion) by lobby groups and multinationals. They are about the fact that governments do not represent the people they are supposed. The fact that the world is run by a system that allows so many to live in poverty while a few own such a large percentage of the worlds wealth.

the protesters might make these claims, but its a thin veneer. whats at the core is people who have run up huge debts through mortgages and loans. yeah, its shit that banks make huge profits and pay massive bonuses, but that doesnt make banks evil or wrong. where were the protestest when the garden was blooming? the 99% took the loans, took the mortgage.

as far as the bailouts are concerned, if you read most the capitalists they all disagree with them too. in their view, its not right to prop up failed business, let them fail, socialisation of losses is bad for capitialism. however, our leaders decided that on balance letting high street banks fail, taking all thier depositors funds down the tube, is probably not too clever for the population at large and they gurantee the first £50/85k anyway. long ans short is, however bad people think it is right now, it would have been a lot worse if the banks had collapsed in 2008.

going forward, we need to seperate the retail bank from the investment bank businesses that take on more risk. the banks are against this, so it must be a good idea i dont see any protestors supporting such solutions or making intellgent proposals for other remedies. they are just angry and shouting why its not fair. well neither is living in a shanty town, have some perspective.

 

[beorhthelm]

e.g british gas produce no gas, they rent pipelines and have a decent billing system - they make billions on their scam, charge so much old ppl die due to cold, but ppl think it is a nice gas supplier who have to pay alot wholesale......

they supply the gas to the customer - why is this a scam? why is it corrupt and greedy to buy gas at wholesale and sell it to those individuals that require it? in recent news they make £125 a year per customer, up from £15 (actually lost money on gas only customers), historically its around 5%. so for a £1000 energy bill, they'd have £50 profit. £1 a week.

what would you do for £1 a week?

similarly, BP for all those evil billions of profit is making net profit of 5.9%. they make alot of money because we use alot of oil. yes we are probably raping the planet, and the corporations are only too eager to assist, but we need to look for the root cause at home, not constantly project the fault onto business that we fund.

as for creating and working, some are inclinded to one, some the other, some neither. if you really mean what you say, why are you there, with your computer (planet is certainly raped to aquire the materials that go into manufactoring that) and your electricity (even if solar/wind, theres the rare earth metals to source), when you could easily leave this society and find a nice hunter gather tribe where you can think all day. probably for the most part about where the next meal is going to come from.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

And yet they also live in a society where they too could become millionaires with hard work and a good idea.

I agree with most stuff you post, but do you actually believe that? Really? That we live in some 1950's "American Dream" society? I am not saying that there aren't lazy scroungers out there but there are a lot of people who work hard and are full of great ideas that are destined to live their lives at the bottom end of the class ladder.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The defence of capitalism always used to be that it worked for everyone.

The protesters are merely suggesting that this crisis is demonstrating that, when things go wrong, capitalism only works for some. And they are pointing out that it's not just feckless wasters who are losing out.

 

[Beach Hut]

The defence of capitalism always used to be that it worked for everyone.

The protesters are merely suggesting that this crisis is demonstrating that, when things go wrong, capitalism only works for some. And they are pointing out that it's not just feckless wasters who are losing out.

Not often I agree with LB on anything political but this is actually quite correct and as this economic situation gets harsher more lose out.

 

[brunswick]

So what is the alternative? Stop bonuses and all the talent in the city goes elsewhere to ply their trade. Like it or not we need these people to get us out of this mess!

wow, these views exist.

the reason you support the system is in your own words.....you have no idea of any alternative.....simple.

 

[beorhthelm]

The defence of capitalism always used to be that it worked for everyone.

The protesters are merely suggesting that this crisis is demonstrating that, when things go wrong, capitalism only works for some. And they are pointing out that it's not just feckless wasters who are losing out.

in contrast to Beach Hut, i dont think this is correct, or at least not completely. capitialism does work for everyone, just to varying degrees. yes the rich get richer, the gap between the rich and poor can get larger, but the base line also goes up. the poor do get richer too. when we talk of poverty in the UK or other western countries, its a very differnt beast to that in say Brazil, India or Angola. it would be great to spread the butter further, but not at the sake of destory the motivation and reward for hard work. one might say capitalism is the worst form of economy, except all the other forms we have tried.

what ive found interesting in the background noise is the absolute right we apparently have to increase our standard of living every year. it is then condemed that we we should be static let alone step back for a year. id have thought, as previous generations did, that if we gradually improve over time, its good. someone in a paper pointed out that inflation was 27% at one point in the 70's, so talk of us regressing to 70s living standards is rather exaggerated. why do we no longer play the long game?

 

[brunswick]

I don't think that's quite true.

There's a lot of rich people who are quite philanthropic with thier money. Bill gates for example.

Tony Bloom wasn't born a millionaire was he? Most people who have met him seem to suggest he's a rather nice chap.

I think you'll find if someones rich and is greedy cold hearted and a backstabber they would be exactly like that even if they were penniless.




Personally i think the system works quite well. He who dares wins.

I'm dead agaisnt rewarding lazy sods with profits from other peoples efforts and risks.



Humans are workers. Our ancestors were hunter gatherers. If we didn't work to feed ourselves we would have died off a long time ago.

Those who think they have some right to sit around thinking while others slave away to provide for them while they do so should be thrown to the wolves so to speak.

look into gates' vaccines in africa and look at the fertility rate in those areas.

TB - i dont have an issue with rich people, it is greedy and corrupt banks and mega corps that hurt the planet.

i know many who turned into arses when they got money and/or power - we all do.

if you think the sys works well, write it down today, sign it, date it, and give it to your grankids in 20 years....lets see what they say back to you.

life is not "work for a boss and pay tax" or "be a lazy layabout sponging" there is so many other ways to live, is this all that is in your imagination? even [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION] stretches to a third laughable option of tribal living while hunting and grunting.

humans are not workers, they are a feeling of awareness that can contemplate ones own sentience, and can create using their consciousness.....yes, the body can do tasks but this is trivial compared to the reality of the experience of being human.

daring is subjective, dare to work longer to get a promotion, dare to gamble hedge funds, or dare to stand up to corruption and ppl who are toxic to the planet?

to wish for any human to be thrown to the wolves shows you have psycopathic issues and i am wasting my time debating with you.

 

[Richard Hebberd's Syrup]

what ive found interesting in the background noise is the absolute right we apparently have to increase our standard of living every year. it is then condemed that we we should be static let alone step back for a year. id have thought, as previous generations did, that if we gradually improve over time, its good. someone in a paper pointed out that inflation was 27% at one point in the 70's, so talk of us regressing to 70s living standards is rather exaggerated. why do we no longer play the long game?

There is now an instant culture for success. I blame Simon Cowell

 

[bhaexpress]

they are not allowed near the city.
they are being moved on from st pauls.
they are being kettled and contained.
they are being tarnished by the MSM.
they are being mis labelled by the MSM.
they have been lied to by banks and politicions.
the pm in the uk can only get in with millions of corporate funding for a campaign.
they pay over the top for things so mega corps make more money.
they pay for bail outs so the banks can take more money and give more bonuses.

that, is fascism and dictatorship, not democracy.

They are not allowed near the City as they would cause massive congestion, ever considered that ?
They are being moved on from St Pauls as they are causing an obstruction to tourists, I suppose The Church of England are also a part of your paranoid conspiracy.
They are being escorted, don't let your imagination run any wilder
Any comments by the MSM are merely a response to the protesters' claims or are they not allowed to have their say in your misguided version of Utopia ?
Who's telling lies ? You have clear evidence of this ?
Frankly I could reply to the rest of what you've said but I don't think it's fair to keep arguing with you as you don't seem very well.

Anyway, just what is your means of employment ? Try answering.
.

 

[bhaexpress]

Economic system would be improved by leaving the EU and revoking all its legislation. Politics would improve by greater transparency and accountability and more devolution of power.

The unemployment situation would improve and there should be more council houses available, sorry if that sounds rather BNP/EDL but it's a fact.