Occupy demo in London.

[Gus is god]

ON the same day my credit card provider sent me a little card telling me that if I spend $2,500but December they will give me a $50 Myer gift card then phoned me up to tell me off for missing a payment and charged me $10.

Not exactly a lie but you can see the mixed message her.

For other lies banks have told try google!
http://www.sharescity.com/2007/07/fsa-condemns-lies-told-by-uk-banks.html

Not a mix message really you missed your payments so you got fined? I got given £50 by BT last year for renewing my contract dont mean im not going to pay my bill to them

 

[BadFish]

Not a mix message really you missed your payments so you got fined? I got given £50 by BT last year for renewing my contract dont mean im not going to pay my bill to them

Please go on treat yourself spend more money that isn't yours! but don't miss a payment or we will fine you! that to me is a mixed message

 

[BadFish]

Interesting article about the Melbourne protests here. I will be going along next weekend.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/media-preoccupations-overlooking-real-nature-of-protests-20111022-1mdvy.html

''Everyone has a different opinion and different causes,'' says Mr Schoeffel. ''But what we have in common … is wanting the money out of politics that comes from corporations. And we believe that the 1 per cent that controls most of the wealth and power should not speak for the 99 per cent.''

Yes, the visitors were confronted with the green hair and dreadlocks and poor skin of hardcore green and socialist-left protesters, some of whom spoke enthusiastically for banning money. But they also found people like maths tutor and ''regulated capitalist'' David Schoeffel in his three-piece suit who doesn't want to throw out the entire system, just see it held accountable.
''I'm worried the general public feels alienated because they think it's the usual suspects,'' he says. ''But as more educated people turn up, the public will realise it's not just a joke.'' Mr Schoeffel was hoping to introduce ''Suit Saturday'' to subvert the unwashed image of social justice.

 

[beorhthelm]

i could post 50 things, 10 biggies, but i am not going to, this is the point......ignorance reigns.... easiest option for you is to reply with "haha because you don't know" - others here do the same....a choice option when penned into this corner.

you know tis really is a poor cop out, calling someone ignorant then not offering anything to back up anything you'ver said. especially as we got to this point because you rasied 9 points, of which 7 are false and this is the only one challenged. why bother to put forward these alternative views if not to educate others? i have no doubt you have 50 incidents, but i'd wager they are all untrue, distorted reality or known to those that needed to know.

 

[BadFish]

you know tis really is a poor cop out, calling someone ignorant then not offering anything to back up anything you'ver said. especially as we got to this point because you rasied 9 points, of which 7 are false and this is the only one challenged. why bother to put forward these alternative views if not to educate others? i have no doubt you have 50 incidents, but i'd wager they are all untrue, distorted reality or known to those that needed to know.

These protests are about the disparity of wealth on a global scale caused by governments kowtowing to large corporations and rich lobby groups instead of representing the people in their constituents.

Is this something you disagree with? Some evidence to back up my claims?

http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats

 

[Arthur]

wow, these views exist.

the reason you support the system is in your own words.....you have no idea of any alternative.....simple.

We don't need an alternative! I've already told you the people who are going to get us out of this mess are the people who arguably got us in it in the first place.

If you don't think that is the case then prey tell me who are going sort the current situation out? It certainly won't be done by a load of tadpole eating sandle wearers camping outside a church.

 

[Half Time Pies]

my point is that i dont recall them telling *us* anything about their operations or complexities, and regulators were aware (albeit not specific operations in places). Northern Rock and Lloyds weren't involved in "investment" banking; Lehmans wasnt bailed out (arguably because of surprise rather than noble motives).

what brunswick means, what so many youtube warriors on the internet mean, is that we, the general population, didnt *know* (50 specific items apparently). people dont care how banks operated, any more than they care how an internal combustion engine or broadband work. as long as it does, everyone is happy to use them. theres no lies or secrets, just no one beyond economists and a few politicians was interested in such matters.

This is precisely why these people are out on the streets; they are trying to raise awareness for the reality of the financial and banking system. Its not that people don't care its just that the vast majority are completely unaware of the way that the system works; if they were then there would be far more than a few hundred out on the street protesting.

 

[BadFish]

We don't need an alternative! I've already told you the people who are going to get us out of this mess are the people who arguably got us in it in the first place.

If you don't think that is the case then prey tell me who are going sort the current situation out? It certainly won't be done by a load of tadpole eating sandle wearers camping outside a church.

They will get the 1% out of this mess and put the 99% in an even worse mess. That is what these protests are about.

 

[BadFish]

Watch this and see the world bank in action.

[video]http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-new-rulers-of-the-world[/video]

 

[Norman Potting]

Capitalism is a lot like being a football fan.

When it's going your way and you're winning it's wonderful.

As soon as there's a rough patch though the moaners who previously were all praise are the first to start bleating about at the form reversal.

Good quote. Problem is with capitalism we all like the nice bits (plenty of choice, competition driving prices down, lots of luvverly consumer durables in the shops etc) but ignore the nasty bits (exploited labour, natural resources being used up at a rate of knots) and when things go pear shaped it bites us on the bum so to speak.

There is a Churchill quote "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried" and think that you could say something along those lines about the "capitalist" system. Anyone got any examples of something that could replace it?

 

[wellquickwoody]

wow, these views exist.

the reason you support the system is in your own words.....you have no idea of any alternative.....simple.

Do the world a favour, go jump off a cliff, arsewipe.

Sent from my wardrobe whilst watching Susannah Reid and Sian Williams enjoy a clam sandwich.

 

[Half Time Pies]

We don't need an alternative! I've already told you the people who are going to get us out of this mess are the people who arguably got us in it in the first place.

If you don't think that is the case then prey tell me who are going sort the current situation out? It certainly won't be done by a load of tadpole eating sandle wearers camping outside a church.

This is the root of the problem; people presume that things like excessive debt and boom and bust are the natural consequence of a free market economy. There appears to be no alternative so we continually attempt to patch up a system which is fundamentally flawed.

It is true that the artificial credit expansion orchestrated by banks and central banks could not have ended in any other way. However there are alternatives to placing the control of the money supply in the hands of corporations who's only purpose is to maximise profit.

I am not going to going to go in to them here but if you are interested A Simple Solution to the Debt Crisis | Positive Money is a good place to start.

 

[beorhthelm]

These protests are about the disparity of wealth on a global scale caused by governments kowtowing to large corporations and rich lobby groups instead of representing the people in their constituents.

are they? Michael Moore says the protests are against, amongst other points, insufficient health care for millions (obviously a US, or non European slant there). meanwhile one well meaning lady at the protest said she was against expensive mortgages, loans and low interest for savings. both are very valid concerns, both are from very different areas of the wealth scale. the overridding point is, the protests are used as a coat stand for all sorts of grievances. the point you make is the hobby horse of one group. i didnt see anyone protesting 3, 5 or 8 years ago when they were too busy filling their boots, and as noble a cause as world poverty is, i dont see them protesting about that over their own relative poverty in the western world. how many of the "99%" are of the 80% living on less than $10 a day?

This is precisely why these people are out on the streets; they are trying to raise awareness for the reality of the financial and banking system.

the problem is, most trying to raise awarenes dont really understand economics either. they've heard a few halftruths and watched a misguided youtube, and are against that, missing a far broader more compex system of interconnected issues. economics are f***ing complicated, even amongst the acedemics they differ on basic tenets, we mere mortals dont really stand much hope of understnading the full picture. it no point raiseing awarness if the governmnet can simply dismiss the objections because they are grounded in beliefs of mythical economic beasts. its a shame as things like corporate governacnce, board accountability to shareholders, better regulation are in need of review, but risk being brushed aside

 

[BadFish]

are they? Michael Moore says the protests are against, amongst other points, insufficient health care for millions (obviously a US, or non European slant there). meanwhile one well meaning lady at the protest said she was against expensive mortgages, loans and low interest for savings. both are very valid concerns, both are from very different areas of the wealth scale. the overridding point is, the protests are used as a coat stand for all sorts of grievances. the point you make is the hobby horse of one group. i didnt see anyone protesting 3, 5 or 8 years ago when they were too busy filling their boots, and as noble a cause as world poverty is, i dont see them protesting about that over their own relative poverty in the western world. how many of the "99%" are of the 80% living on less than $10 a day?



the problem is, most trying to raise awarenes dont really understand economics either. they've heard a few halftruths and watched a misguided youtube, and are against that, missing a far broader more compex system of interconnected issues. economics are f***ing complicated, even amongst the acedemics they differ on basic tenets, we mere mortals dont really stand much hope of understnading the full picture. it no point raiseing awarness if the governmnet can simply dismiss the objections because they are grounded in beliefs of mythical economic beasts. its a shame as things like corporate governacnce, board accountability to shareholders, better regulation are in need of review, but risk being brushed aside

So what do you think? Is there a global problem with wealth distribution or not?

You are right that these protests are being used for many people to air grievances but there is a common thread of consesnsus. Corruption in government and corporqate greed causing an undeniable ever increasing gap in the distribution of wealth.

Economics is made complex by those who will benefit from that complexity.

 

[beorhthelm]

So what do you think? Is there a global problem with wealth distribution or not?

sure theres problems, but wheres the solution or even suggestions for solutions coming from? the corruption of coporations is part of our human nature, and we should nver forget who the corporations work for, their owners - us. we in the west own the pensions funds that own many of the shares, we should put pressure through that channel. but alas most arent even aware of this. this is a good example of the complexity, which isnt made, its inate in such a large, sprawling system with so many interested parties, internal and external feedbacks and variables.

 

[Half Time Pies]

the problem is, most trying to raise awarenes dont really understand economics either. they've heard a few halftruths and watched a misguided youtube, and are against that, missing a far broader more compex system of interconnected issues. economics are f***ing complicated, even amongst the acedemics they differ on basic tenets, we mere mortals dont really stand much hope of understnading the full picture. it no point raiseing awarness if the governmnet can simply dismiss the objections because they are grounded in beliefs of mythical economic beasts. its a shame as things like corporate governacnce, board accountability to shareholders, better regulation are in need of review, but risk being brushed aside

I agree that that economics is complicated however it is the fundamental that that decides who gets what when and how so it seems a tad elitist to suggest that Joe public shouldn't have an opinion particularly when its clear that things are going so fundamentally wrong.

The foundations of a democracy are that people are able to make informed educated decisions. Don't you think that there is an alarming lack of education about money, finance, debt in general? These subjects are hardly approached in schools even at the most basic level.

The fact is its not just internet warriors that disagree with the current financial system there have been and still are prominent economists who call/ have called for an alternative approach. Unfortunately its all to easy to maintain the status quo without the weight of public opinion forcing those in power to consider alternatives.

 

[BadFish]

sure theres problems, but wheres the solution or even suggestions for solutions coming from? the corruption of coporations is part of our human nature, and we should nver forget who the corporations work for, their owners - us. we in the west own the pensions funds that own many of the shares, we should put pressure through that channel. but alas most arent even aware of this. this is a good example of the complexity, which isnt made, its inate in such a large, sprawling system with so many interested parties, internal and external feedbacks and variables.

I don't know how to fix my remote control but i know it's broken.

Having said that i have read many solutions suggested over the last few days across a full range of logic . The point is that without talking about the problem(s) we are not going to find a solution.

Maybe this will be the thing that makes people think about what they can do to put pressure on the 1%.

 

[shellsuit]

i could post 50 things, 10 biggies, but i am not going to, this is the point......ignorance reigns.... easiest option for you is to reply with "haha because you don't know" - others here do the same....a choice option when penned into this corner.

i am presuming you do know since you claim you do,i think 50 is bullcrap to be honest and thats just you being dumb and scared of backing up your claims but im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt,so lets start at say 25.....including your 10 biggies! ignorance may reign brunswick but why would you deliberately not share your facts about the banks? surely its not because you just make shit up?...........is it?
lets not forget you are the one who has all the facts according to yourself

25 Banking Lies According To Brunswick

no.1

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Interesting article about the Melbourne protests here. I will be going along next weekend.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/media-preoccupations-overlooking-real-nature-of-protests-20111022-1mdvy.html

''Everyone has a different opinion and different causes,'' says Mr Schoeffel. ''But what we have in common … is wanting the money out of politics that comes from corporations. And we believe that the 1 per cent that controls most of the wealth and power should not speak for the 99 per cent.''

Yes, the visitors were confronted with the green hair and dreadlocks and poor skin of hardcore green and socialist-left protesters, some of whom spoke enthusiastically for banning money. But they also found people like maths tutor and ''regulated capitalist'' David Schoeffel in his three-piece suit who doesn't want to throw out the entire system, just see it held accountable.
''I'm worried the general public feels alienated because they think it's the usual suspects,'' he says. ''But as more educated people turn up, the public will realise it's not just a joke.'' Mr Schoeffel was hoping to introduce ''Suit Saturday'' to subvert the unwashed image of social justice.

There's far too many successful and well off refugees and immigrants in Australia to prove anything other than if you work hard here you'll succeed eventually.

Too many of those protesting against this dislike of wealth are the middle class lazy pricks who won't get off their arses and do an honest days work because up until now the system they despise has supported their lifestyle.

By all means protest, but do it in the Parliament gardens where businesses, workers and shoppers aren't disrupted going about their takss.

 

[BadFish]

There's far too many successful and well off refugees and immigrants in Australia to prove anything other than if you work hard here you'll succeed eventually.

Too many of those protesting against this dislike of wealth are the middle class lazy pricks who won't get off their arses and do an honest days work because up until now the system they despise has supported their lifestyle.

By all means protest, but do it in the Parliament gardens where businesses, workers and shoppers aren't disrupted going about their takss.

Tyrone. This is just blind predjudice. And so far off the point it's not funny. These are people trying to do something about the injustices they see happening in the world. A world where half of its inhabitants are living in poverty.

Are you really okay with this?