'Multiculturalism has failed' - Is This Bloke Fit To Be PM?

[beorhthelm]

Oh so that makes all the imperialism alright does it? There was a system of principalities that also played sports together and traded in spices and married their daughters and sons - kinda like the kings and queens of Europe. Why is there way considered any different to ours - arrogance perchance?!

did i say that, or simply ask a question? you make a clear statement, im questioning if its correct, not making a judgment on politics of the region before, during or after the British rule.

im no graduate of history, but having seen your comment of "model of religiuos intergration it had proved to be for the previous 2000 years", im sure the Sikhs would disagree. did the Muslims wander into the region unopposed? about 10 minutes of wikipedia reading suggest either an awfull lot of made up stories of martydom, conflict and war, or your knowledge is rather cherry picked. the states of Europe traded together married sons and daughters, pretty sure there was alot of fighting too and they certainly where not the same country

 

[salty seagull]

Round `em up, put `em in a field and .... the ........!!

 

[Seagull kimchi]

You are correct that the Sikhs wanted an independent Punjab and this resulted in the seige of the Hari Mandir (Golden Temple) and the consequent assasination of Sonia Gandhi - but this all happened post Independence along with the frequent squirmishes in Kashmir which were a direct result of partition.

 

[Castello]

I think Britain is the most racially-tolerant country in the world (compare us, for example, to Spain) - and it's something we should be very proud of. If there was anywhere in the world where there was evidence of multi-culturalism working, then it is here. So no, it hasn't failed - it works very well on the whole. Of course there are people who may feel that the 'tradtional British way of life' is being eroded or that where they live is being 'swamped' by immigrants or people from a different ethnic culture. But this is a failure of integration, not a failure of the idea of mutli-culturalism. By saying multi-culturalism has failed, Cameron is essentially saying we should be a whites-only nation. And to think Chicken Tikka Masala is our national dish....

This

I live in Haringey which is the 2nd most ethnically mixed borough in the country, The most mixed bing nearby Brent, and the third most mixed is neighbouring Hackney, A whole swathe of noth Londoners work live and mingle with people from a wide range of cultures. Plain and simply they get on as well as any monocultural area does. Why? Because we get on with our lives, dont listen to the crap from the likes of the BNP,EDL, David Cameron or bushy, and judge people on the basis of individual experiences.

Some people are worth knowing some are assholes, Just like here.

Its called tolerance and understanding bushy. Try it. You know it'll make you feel good.

 

[Napper]

This

I live in Haringey which is the 2nd most ethnically mixed borough in the country, The most mixed bing nearby Brent, and the third most mixed is neighbouring Hackney, A whole swathe of noth Londoners work live and mingle with people from a wide range of cultures. Plain and simply they get on as well as any monocultural area does. Why? Because we get on with our lives, dont listen to the crap from the likes of the BNP,EDL, David Cameron or bushy, and judge people on the basis of individual experiences.

Some people are worth knowing some are assholes, Just like here.

Its called tolerance and understanding bushy. Try it. You know it'll make you feel good.

Out of interest , I bet crime rates and racial unrest is very high in these areas

 

[shingle]

OK. if India had not have undergone 200 years of colonisation from the European powers it probably would have continued to be the model of religiuos intergration it had proved to be for the previous 2000 years.

What about Ayodhya

 

[Castello]

Out of interest , I bet crime rates and racial unrest is very high in these areas

racial unrest not at all ...In my experience any conflict between races is no more common than conflict between people of the same race. To be honest Ive seen proportionately more racism in Brighton when ive visited with black friends than in the area i live in.

But that is my point when people are left to get on with things without interference from outsiders, they learn to adjust and work out differences. When people interfere by stirring things up, conflict entails. why would this surprise anyone with no axe to grind

Crime rate is higher in all inner city areas and Haringey as an inner city area is no different. Interestingly though in the first querter of 2005 on Broadwater farm, one of the most ethnically mixed estes in haringey and the scene of the Tottenham riots 20 years before, there were no reported robberies or outdoor assaults and only 1 burglary with the culprit caught and all goods returned. BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Transforming Broadwater Farm

What other urban area of over a 1000 homes can claim crime statistics like that.

 

[bhaexpress]

Currently I work for the NHS, just about every race, creed and colour works there, they seem to get along. Okay so some extermists don't intergrate, like the EDL for instance.

 

[ROKERITE]

This

I live in Haringey which is the 2nd most ethnically mixed borough in the country, The most mixed bing nearby Brent, and the third most mixed is neighbouring Hackney, A whole swathe of noth Londoners work live and mingle with people from a wide range of cultures. Plain and simply they get on as well as any monocultural area does. Why? Because we get on with our lives, dont listen to the crap from the likes of the BNP,EDL, David Cameron or bushy, and judge people on the basis of individual experiences.

Some people are worth knowing some are assholes, Just like here.

Its called tolerance and understanding bushy. Try it. You know it'll make you feel good.

People like you and Kevo make me despair for the future of our country. Your bigotry and intolerence, your twisting of people's words to make them what you want them to be rather than what they are, disgusts me. To bracket the liberal Cameron with the extremist BNP, or to suggest as Kevo does, that Cameron's criticism of multi-culturalism is saying we should be a whites only nation, is so incredibly stupid, and insults the intelligence of moderate, tolerant Britons, whatever their colour or creed.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

String together a semi-coherent argument, and, who knows, you may well get a response

Um, just thought it might be worthy of debate on football's smartest website, is all

Where does fishing come into it?

And I truly have not the foggiest idea what the bloke was asking that I was supposed to be avoiding answering.

He's suggesting you're a hypocrite because of statements you've made in past about "outsiders" ( admittedly not on here ).

I'm suggesting you're fishing because your left wing clap trap statement was designed to produce a binfest. There was no substance to the post and it was clearly just an ill thought out attack on David Cameron and all those of a right wing leaning without any data to back it up. It felt like one of those headlines in either the Mirror or the Mail - completely idiotic and designed to create trouble. Certainly to me, and I would think others, it was a mirror of post of the ones we've come to love from Simple Simon ( an equally bad Labour loser ).

 

[KneeOn]

Bushy, the problem isn't a mix of groups because the majority DO integrate and embrace multiple cultures. The issue is individuals, of which there are some from both sides who refuse to work together.

White racists are just as much of a problem as piss taking, knobbish members of the minorities. Multiculturalism and integration has worked, evident by the fact many children of the generation above mine, and the children my generation will have are able to look at people and individuals not as a group but as members with a few shared values. If multiculturalism had failed, then up and down the country racism in schools would be far more rife than it is.

Granted it is still a massive issue and one that comes from both sides but to say that it is the same as it was when my parents were in school is not true. The attitudes of this country towards members of Islam are changing for the better and the attitudes Muslims hold towards us is changing, for the better.

I think Martin Luther King Jnr hit the nail on the head, his dream wasn't to see his generation integrated but the children. Your values have been instilled Bushy as per your generation. You hold those values because of how you've been brought up, and how you've seen the world with those values. You are still in a minority with those values but there are far more people with your mind set in your generation than in my generation.

Multiculturalism or not there will always be crime, discrimination, people taking the piss. What I think those who have been brought up more recently are able to do however is not look at it as a Muslim person taking the system for a ride, its an individual taking the system for a ride who happens to be Muslim and is no different to a white person doing it. Both are individuals, both have done wrong.

Multiculturalism and integration has succeeded when that is how we look at people IMO.

 

[8ace]

They showed a newspaper front page on breakfast news yesterday, I wasn't really paying attention and thought the picture of CMD was Nick Griffin at first glance.

 

[Dandyman]

racial unrest not at all ...In my experience any conflict between races is no more common than conflict between people of the same race. To be honest Ive seen proportionately more racism in Brighton when ive visited with black friends than in the area i live in.

But that is my point when people are left to get on with things without interference from outsiders, they learn to adjust and work out differences. When people interfere by stirring things up, conflict entails. why would this surprise anyone with no axe to grind

Crime rate is higher in all inner city areas and Haringey as an inner city area is no different. Interestingly though in the first querter of 2005 on Broadwater farm, one of the most ethnically mixed estes in haringey and the scene of the Tottenham riots 20 years before, there were no reported robberies or outdoor assaults and only 1 burglary with the culprit caught and all goods returned. BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Transforming Broadwater Farm

What other urban area of over a 1000 homes can claim crime statistics like that.

As another LBH resident, I'd agree with both that and your previous posts.

As for Cameron's speach, it's just the same old divide and rule bullshit that people like him always spew out when they want to distract attention from rising unemployment, negative growth, increased tax, slashed services and the rest of the right-wing vandalism that his insulated little gang of multi-millionaires are inflicting on the country.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I live in Haringey which is the 2nd most ethnically mixed borough in the country, The most mixed bing nearby Brent, and the third most mixed is neighbouring Hackney, A whole swathe of noth Londoners work live and mingle with people from a wide range of cultures. Plain and simply they get on as well as any monocultural area does. Why? Because we get on with our lives, dont listen to the crap from the likes of the BNP,EDL, David Cameron or bushy, and judge people on the basis of individual experiences.

Top post sir or madam

 

[Dandyman]

People like you and Kevo make me despair for the future of our country. Your bigotry and intolerence, your twisting of people's words to make them what you want them to be rather than what they are, disgusts me. To bracket the liberal Cameron with the extremist BNP, or to suggest as Kevo does, that Cameron's criticism of multi-culturalism is saying we should be a whites only nation, is so incredibly stupid, and insults the intelligence of moderate, tolerant Britons, whatever their colour or creed.

So what, in your opinion, is Cameron calling for and to what extent does he share my culture or that of most people on these board? ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It felt like one of those headlines in either the Mirror or the Mail - completely idiotic and designed to create trouble.

Totally agree. That headline WAS completely idiotic and designed to create trouble. Whatever possessed David Cameron to come up wth it?

 

[ROKERITE]

So what, in your opinion, is Cameron calling for and to what extent does he share my culture or that of most people on these board? ?

There'd be no point trying to explain it to you. Your post "94" shows clearly you're just another of those narrow-minded, left-wing bigots. You, Castello, Tom Hark and such don't want a society where we live in harmony; that wouldn't suit you at all. You want there to be racists in order to feel superior, and if you can't find them you'll invent them or twist peoples' words to divine racism where there is none. You're like the Witch-Finders General of the 17th Century.

 

[Hungry Joe]

this was not a case of his mouth running away with him imo
how many politicians get to his position by having loose lips? very very few i'm sure! boris johnson is someone whose mouth runs away with him, not cameron.

i think this is a calculated piece of chicanery. he has not said anything to earn him more than a slap on the wrist from liberal factions, and like most views on an issue, in part he has a point. the calculation i believe is to distance his government in a RADICAL way from the perceived weakness of the previous incumbents Labour - and more - to appeal to the right-wing masses and distract them from the economic outrages his government is perpetrating on society.

it is perfect fare as a distraction. how many people can honestly say they have never felt disgusted, angry, or at the least disappointed by the attitudes of some immigrants to the country? perhaps, particularly muslims, particularly in the last ten years, they have a siege mentality... which one can understand... but i have felt threatened by gangs of these young men, i have been racially abused albeit in a way easy to dismiss. the issue is a big part of the fabric of society at the moment... to take umbrage with the islamic moderates is to stir things up a bit, and this will distract the papers and populace from the big picture which is the traditional Tory economic raping of the downtrodden, poor and lower-middling.

what i am saying is - it is f***ing clever of cameron. this is the tory attitude that some of the less wealthy embrace. some people vote tory despite the fact they do not truly represent their interests. in some cases, this demographic will lap this up. I wonder what the Daily Mail, The Daily Express and The Sun have to say about it... i'll be f***ed before i buy those rags though, there are better things to wipe my arse with.

Absolutely 100% spot on.

 

[Dandyman]

There'd be no point trying to explain it to you. Your post "94" shows clearly you're just another of those narrow-minded, left-wing bigots. You, Castello, Tom Hark and such don't want a society where we live in harmony; that wouldn't suit you at all. You want there to be racists in order to feel superior, and if you can't find them you'll invent them or twist peoples' words to divine racism where there is none. You're like the Witch-Finders General of the 17th Century.

In other words you are incapable of answering my question or providing any sort of coherent argument. No surprise, there then.

 

[ROKERITE]

In other words you are incapable of answering my question or providing any sort of coherent argument. No surprise, there then.

Stings you left wing bigots doesn't it, when someone exposes you for what you are?