Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[User removed 4]

The upside is that you're fluent in Greek though. You are arent you?

And you're asking this question without a trace of smutty innuendo i take it ?

 

[User removed 4]

Very funny. But be careful though; the last person who alluded to, and I quote, 'feminising' Bushy was offered out!

I think you're imagining things .

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

If there hadn't been such an open-door policy, far fewer Britons would have taken their billions of pounds out of the UK to buy their properties in those, and other, countries. They'd be doing their shopping and paying their VAT, Community Charge and other taxes here. And we do hear about them. Many have found those same properties are either worthless for various reasons, or that their value has dropped by half, or more, or that they can't be sold. Some impoverished ex-pats are returning to this country because they can't afford to run their homes in the sun, yet find it very difficult to get the State to feed and house them.

This country's history is one of mass immigration over the centuries. Most of the immigrants integrated into society and became so British, you wouldn't know the difference. Dear Michael Winner, the son of a Polish mother and a Russian father. The fabulous Helen Mirren, nee Mironoff, the daughter of a Russian immigrant. The Millibands, sons of Polish parents. Dear Cleggy, the son of a Dutch woman and a man with East European ancestors. Mrs Morse, Sheila Hancock, whose father was the son of an Italian immigrant.

During World War II, we had mass immigration of Poles, including my father. He even wrote to my mother, in 1960, that London was so full of Polish people, she should not be surprised to see Polish street signs in the future.

The problem with the past decade of mass immigration, is that there was no real reason for it, except to try to boost the numbers of Labour voters among them. Labour admitted to this. Previous waves of mass immigration were for economic or political reasons, to keep these people alive. In their gratitude that they had been given a chance, they integrated into British society and contributed to it. This was not the case during the past decade, which is a mix-and-match case of youngsters coming for jobs, to send their earnings out of the country to their homelands, where it has more value. Millions have been lost to the UK in this way. This reduced the numbers of traditional starter jobs for our young, often because they have such high expectations, they wouldn't get out of bed for the minimum wage, let alone below it. They're not working so they're not paying tax, but often receiving some money from the State anyway. Yet others have come from their slum homelands in the East and the Far East, jobless, stateless, with no papers, and no right to be here, hiding themselves in Greek lorries en route to Italy and Sangatte, before they turn up here and end up living in the same sort of squalour they left behind. Some of their passports have been taken, and they are hidden away in slave sheds at the bottom of their abusers' gardens without funds to go home, and too fearful to give themselves up. They've heard much about the benefits system, not realising, that without papers, they could never be part of that. But others had, and Blair and Brown's Britain welcomed them with open arms full of taxpayers' money and housing. Their children are now educated by the State, the parents having paid comparatively little in the way of tax or NI. And they are all treated by the NHS. It has all lost us billions from our economy and is one of the main reasons this country is broke.

Sounds like you believe a lot of what is in the Daily Mail. One minute your bemoaning the fact that there aren't any jobs for our young people, when there clearly are, it's just that they are too lazy and feckless to apply for them. then you're saying that the people who are employed here aren't paying Tax and NI when they have to, and are contributing far more to this Country than those people sitting at home claiming the dole.

Why appease a young generation who have come to expect a hand out rather than earn their keep. Give me the young people from overseas who've got some balls to try to better themselves over someone who wants to spend their life on benefits. As Norman Tebbit once said, when his father could find a job, he 'got on his bike' and looked for one. If that means they have to look overseas, then that's what they have to do. The immigration laws work both ways, and there's nothing to stop (as many do) young people looking for work in France, Spain, Germany, Italy or Greece.

 

[Camicus]

Sounds like you believe a lot of what is in the Daily Mail. One minute your bemoaning the fact that there aren't any jobs for our young people, when there clearly are, it's just that they are too lazy and feckless to apply for them. then you're saying that the people who are employed here aren't paying Tax and NI when they have to, and are contributing far more to this Country than those people sitting at home claiming the dole.

Why appease a young generation who have come to expect a hand out rather than earn their keep. Give me the young people from overseas who've got some balls to try to better themselves over someone who wants to spend their life on benefits. As Norman Tebbit once said, when his father could find a job, he 'got on his bike' and looked for one. If that means they have to look overseas, then that's what they have to do. The immigration laws work both ways, and there's nothing to stop (as many do) young people looking for work in France, Spain, Germany, Italy or Greece.

My boy did a 3 year apprenticiship in Paris he now works as a sous chef for a michilin stared hotel. Thanks to the right to work part of the EU

 

[User removed 4]

My boy did a 3 year apprenticiship in Paris he now works as a sous chef for a michilin stared hotel. Thanks to the right to work part of the EU

My mate ran a bricklaying firm , he had to fold it and go back on the tools himself thanks to being constantly undercut on price by (less skilled) polish bricklayers thanks to the right to work part of the EU.

 

[Camicus]

My mate ran a bricklaying firm , he had to fold it and go back on the tools himself thanks to being constantly undercut on price by (less skilled) polish bricklayers thanks to the right to work part of the EU.

Isnt that what "market forces" so beloved by Thatcher are all about?

 

[User removed 4]

Isnt that what "market forces" so beloved by Thatcher are all about?

I dont see your point ? Why are you quoting thatcher to me ?

 

[yxee]

The more I think about this the more it annoys me. It's not about Europe at all. This is a concession to people breaking ranks and threatening to vote UKIP, and he's chosen 2017 because they will then vote tory instead. On the downside it gives us four years of economic uncertainty at an already uncertain time. And what's it going to do for his bargaining position in Europe? He's already sidelined by previous Euroscepticism, now he's going to be entirely marginalised.

There is absolutely zero national interest in this move, the only interest is in the conservative party preventing further defections.

 

[Camicus]

The more I think about this the more it annoys me. It's not about Europe at all. This is a concession to people breaking ranks and threatening to vote UKIP, and he's chosen 2017 because they will then vote tory instead. On the downside it gives us four years of economic uncertainty at an already uncertain time. And what's it going to do for his bargaining position in Europe? He's already sidelined by previous Euroscepticism, now he's going to be entirely marginalised.

There is absolutely zero national interest in this move, the only interest is in the conservative party preventing further defections.

This is the correct answer

 

[The Merry Prankster]

A major problem for years has been the failure of the EU to engage with the British electorate.This referendum will give rise to a debate when they will have a chance to do that. If they do then the "ins" may win it. I'm pretty sure they won't if they just rely on scare tactics. In other words, I need to be persuaded of the reasons for staying in rather than scared about what may happen if we leave.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

A major problem for years has been the failure of the EU to engage with the British electorate.This referendum will give rise to a debate when they will have a chance to do that. If they do then the "ins" may win it. I'm pretty sure they won't if they just rely on scare tactics. In other words, I need to be persuaded of the reasons for staying in rather than scared about what may happen if we leave.

This, this, this all over. And yet in this thread of 390 posts there isn't one single realistic post from an "in" person as to why we should stay "in". I mean without the "it would be a disaster to leave" statement.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sounds like you believe a lot of what is in the Daily Mail. One minute your bemoaning the fact that there aren't any jobs for our young people, when there clearly are, it's just that they are too lazy and feckless to apply for them. then you're saying that the people who are employed here aren't paying Tax and NI when they have to, and are contributing far more to this Country than those people sitting at home claiming the dole.

Why appease a young generation who have come to expect a hand out rather than earn their keep. Give me the young people from overseas who've got some balls to try to better themselves over someone who wants to spend their life on benefits. As Norman Tebbit once said, when his father could find a job, he 'got on his bike' and looked for one. If that means they have to look overseas, then that's what they have to do. The immigration laws work both ways, and there's nothing to stop (as many do) young people looking for work in France, Spain, Germany, Italy or Greece.

Italy is a long way on a bike though.

 

[User removed 4]

A major problem for years has been the failure of the EU to engage with the British electorate.This referendum will give rise to a debate when they will have a chance to do that. If they do then the "ins" may win it. I'm pretty sure they won't if they just rely on scare tactics. In other words, I need to be persuaded of the reasons for staying in rather than scared about what may happen if we leave.

Surprisingly, this, we need to have the pros and cons and possible scenarios sensibly debated to enable an informed decision.

 

[Common as Mook]

My mate ran a bricklaying firm , he had to fold it and go back on the tools himself thanks to being constantly undercut on price by (less skilled) polish bricklayers thanks to the right to work part of the EU.

I agree with the sentiment here, but how did he know they were less skilled?

 

[User removed 4]

I agree with the sentiment here, but how did he know they were less skilled?

because they had worked on the same site and he'd seen their work.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My mate ran a bricklaying firm , he had to fold it and go back on the tools himself thanks to being constantly undercut on price by (less skilled) polish bricklayers thanks to the right to work part of the EU.

Which begs the question why didnt he employ some '20 to a single room' poles and play them at their own game?

 

[User removed 4]

Which begs the question why didnt he employ some '20 to a single room' poles and play them at their own game?

Because they were less skilled, as i've already said , and their work wasnt up to standard .

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Because they were less skilled, as i've already said , and their work wasnt up to standard .

He could have employed other poles who are cheap and whose work is up to standard.

 

[jgmcdee]

Because they were less skilled, as i've already said , and their work wasnt up to standard .

I've had British builders round, they were crap.

I've had other British builder round, they were very good.

Stating that a person is skilled or not at their profession just because of where they were born is purely anecdotcal and has no relevance whatsoever to the actual debate, but this is the type of discussion that we're going to be stuck with for the next 5 years.

For this, if nothing else, I will never forgive Cameron.

 

[User removed 4]

He could have employed other poles who are cheap and whose work is up to standard.

He could have i suppose if he wanted to get rid of all his british workers , and he had wanted to waste time hunting out polish bricklayers who's work was up to standard , perhaps any bricklayers on here willl confirm that the polish standards are generally lower ?