Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[Herr Tubthumper]

People have been taking bikes on UK trains for almost 40 years. Has something changed?

He's a challenge for you. Try and find the cheapest train ticket from Brighton to Manchester and the times when you can travel with your bike. Then try and execute this challenge.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Cross border technology - Works within the confines of multi-national companies,

Not just multi-nationals. I used to work for a defence company and we had cross boarder projects with the US, the Swiss, China and Australia to name but a few non-EU members. It's a smokescreen to suggest this type of thing working can only happen if the EU exists or that we're members.

 

[HovaGirl]

Feel free to throw away........

For the record I love Europe (the continent and its countries), but what is with the pot? Why is there a central pot of money in the first place? I don’t see why there has to be a central pot..............why are UK taxpayers, consumers and businesses giving money to a pot (or an institution) that they have never been directly asked to contribute too? For example, the EU places a levy on our VAT, so all our VATable goods are more expensive as a direct consequence of the EU? And consumers benefit from that how?

Messrs Van Rompoy, Barroso and Schutlz who represent the 3 most powerful people in the EU have not been voted in by any electorate other than EU politicians or leaders of the national Govts of the member states. This is a POLITBURO and more similar to how the Chinese and other totalitarian countries elect their leadership...................I think its f***ing laughable that there are so many on here that can’t wait to vote out Cameron in the UK, but can’t see the irony that they can’t vote out ANY of the leadership of the EU, the very institution they are so enthusiastic for.....................but it’s not laughable is it? Its actually a tragic indication of what a mess we are in and despite the opportunity to sort it out, people are still moaning about Cameron or the Daily Mail. I think many Pro EU supporters arent really Pro EU, they are just anti anyone who expresses an anti EU view.

Your argument for cross border technology pooling is fine...............but then why would that not happen without the EU? Frankly why would companies only look to do this only with other EU companies, the world doesn’t end at the borders of the EU.

Good post.

 

[HovaGirl]

He's a challenge for you. Try and find the cheapest train ticket from Brighton to Manchester and the times when you can travel with your bike. Then try and execute this challenge.

Why would anyone want to take a bike to Manchester?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why would anyone want to take a bike to Manchester on a train?

I dont know what drives some people. Why do some poeple climb mountains or run marathons? Why do some people row across the atlantic. I guess it's the supreme challenge some people enjoy?

 

[cunning fergus]

Central funding - I would argue that finding for EU representation at the WTO is desirable and beneficial http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/uk-eu-china-summit-idUKBRE88I1I220120919

Unelected leaders - I concede, I should care more about this, but there you go.

Cross border technology - Works within the confines of multi-national companies, but many R&D and indeed large construction projects carry too much risk for private investors. So governments have to fund some of these activities. A report this week into Boris Island suggested that private companies would not be prepared to fund the 30bn required for this. Where these investments have wider benefits, it makes sense to fund them regionally.

Central Funding.............you say you would argue for it but haven’t?

The article you attached is about the political/trade representation between EU, US and China. Frankly the article is f***ing terrifying, essentially China and the US want to deal with the EU through a centralised interface, and the logistics for this to come into effect were arranged through the Lisbon Treaty. What I recall at the time was that Gordon Brown said it was a "tidying up" exercise.

German court delays Lisbon Treaty - Telegraph

The national Governments of the EU may well have wanted to introduce this arrangement but the constitutional affects are not minor matters (as even the Germans realised), it is now the case that unelected individuals who are “representing” democratically elected Governments are not themselves not elected by the people. If those unelected individuals had no power I would be more sanguine, but they are not. They are powerful and dictate and approve the laws and directives that democratically elected governments then introduce on their electorates

I appreciate your candour about unelected leaders and I really wish others would be as open about it as you. If (during the build up to the referendum) some of the pro Europeans like you could articulate it exactly like you have in your post I think that would really help people make their minds up about the direction this country should take.

I am still lost on the 3rd point about why we need to give the EU money to fund stuff..........are we saying the UK Govt can't fund stuff without paying money to the EU? How did the UK do this kind of stuff in the past?

 

[Wally Gould]

i think a vast majority of the uk electorate are also fed up with the in, out, veto nonsense. As noted above all the political parties in recent years have promised a referendum and yet we have had nothing.

To be honest even this promise is based on a series of conditions that involve the tories winning the next election.........so nothing is guaranteed...........and even then it's nothing till 2018.

In the meantime the pro europeans will drone on about the economic benefits and how the uk will experience an economic holocaust when big business and the banks would all f*** off to greece, or spain, or slovenia and make millions unemployed in a piqué of spite in the event the the british electorate had the temerity to vote on its own destiny.

On the ground the british working classes in particular will have to deal with competing for work with another tranche of economic migrants from bulgaria and romania..........with turkey waiting on the sidelines. Matters that by being in the eu they have never had a meaningful democratic vote on..............but then that's the way the uk politicians like it, so no wonder the british electorate don't trust them.

spot on.

 

[User removed 4]

As HT said, catching trains with a bike is a nightmare:-

Cycle policy : Southern

Good, they're a f***ing nuisance !! Get a bus or a cab or walk at the other end like everyone else.

 

[Nibble]

There are murmerings from Tory minsisters of ousting Cameron. Hopefuly he'll be out within 3 months. It has begun. Bye bye, you robbing bastard.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

If you don't actually read the mail, but rely on the appalling Mail web site to make your judgements, then you don't know how good or bad the Mail's journalism actually is. One of their investigative reporters learned the ropes at the Argus. He was good then and he's still good now.

What do you think of the Mail attitude to women ? My in-laws used to get it and I never used to like our daughter getting over-exposed to it. The paper seemed to be very anti-working or successful women and would alternate any chance to show revealing line-up of women in the guise of a fashion article with criticism of any woman not dolled up to the nines, or criticism for apparently getting old.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I should say that one of the web-sites my daughter most visits seems to Mail On-Line. Still - you can only do your best.

 

[Nibble]

The Mail online and the Mail hard copy is a paper full of c*nts, made by c*nts for c*nts.

 

[User removed 4]

Watch the German public clamour to either leave the EU or side with us in renegotiation if this gets approval :

German Court to Rule On Right Of EU Nationals To German Social Welfare - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[El Presidente]

Good, they're a f***ing nuisance !! Get a bus or a cab or walk at the other end like everyone else.

I think we both know you have ridden the odd bike from Manchester Bushy

 

[User removed 4]

I think we both know you have ridden the odd bike from Manchester Bushy

Quality 70's style smutty innuendo