Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[HovaGirl]

I can only presume the 10 years she spent abroad was living in some leathery skinned Spanish expat hell hole (which are drains on their resources) with the only pause in reading the Mail is to wolf down a spaghetti bolognaise with chips.

(there you go [MENTION=11956]bushy[/MENTION] )

No, my husband's job went to Greece, so we had to. I lost 10 years of my life: my job; my house; my family; my friends; my pets; my hobbies. Everything, just to keep our main income.

 

[JCL666]

Given all you've done is snipe at other posters I'll concede you might not be pro-EU but you've added nothing to the debate.

I think asking people to provide clarity on their rants and pointing out where they maybe factually incorrect contributes to the debate.

 

[JCL666]

Course you did , you're like those southern man utd or liverpool fans who use the remotest links to justify their suppport, and you'll use any reason but the real ones to justify your reason for moving.

Oh no I didn't.

I'm assuming this is what being in a panto feels like.

 

[User removed 4]

Oh no I didn't.

I'm assuming this is what being in a panto feels like.

If it is , you're the back end of the horse, with the associated lack of vision.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

3. We pay too much money to other countries, either to bail out European countries, or as a member of the European Club, or in aid to growing economies such as India and others, or in benefits to immigrants and asylum-seekers who have not contributed to the system themselves.
Basically, the UK is paying out far more than it receives. It needs to reduce its outgoings, or increase its income. At the moment, it can do neither.

Do you actually have any net overall figures for this? The UK invests in many of these countries you mention which we pay out money to via the EU i.e. the government AND UK business gets a return. The EU invests plenty of money in the UK which benefits UK businesses i.e. it gives to UK businesss not the government. I'd really like to know your overall direct and indirect net figures. Or are you simply looking at the amount we pay into the EU minus the rebate?

 

[User removed 4]

Do you actually have any net overall figures for this? The UK invests in many of these countries you mention which we pay out money to via the EU i.e. the government AND UK business gets a return. The EU invests plenty of money in the UK which benefits UK businesses i.e. it gives to UK businesss not the government. I'd really like to know your overall direct and indirect net figures.

I know we gave 11.4 billion that we cant afford in aid to "developing" nations including 1 billion to India with its nuclear weapons and space programme, and I'm sure it's all been spent wisely. See the link below for an example of how grateful they are for our aid and what a return we get on it.
Fears For British Jobs After India Backs French Fighter Jets Over Eurofighter In $10bn Deal

 

[HovaGirl]

My biggest frustration with mass immigration is what it has done to the labour market. The supply of labour has gone through the roof so this has depressed wages. Ever wondered why so many people are feeling the pinch these days? This is a big part of that.

Yes, the traditional Saturday job has gone. This used to give our teenagers a bit of money of their own and a bit of experience of the working world. The traditional student jobs have gone from the coffee bars, pubs and restaurants which used to supplement student living and also give them experience of the working world. And because Poles, and others, have been here so long, they are even making it up the management ladder in those kinds of low-paid jobs, denying our young even that route to career progression.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No, my husband's job went to Greece, so we had to. I lost 10 years of my life: my job; my house; my family; my friends; my pets; my hobbies. Everything, just to keep our main income.

In what way did you lose 10 years of your life? Genuine question.

 

[Camicus]

This seems totally straight forward to me. If the EU is as marvellous as some suggest then whenever we have the referendum then surely the majority will vote to stay in? Why the objection to a referendum by some?

I have no objection what so ever to a referendum. What I object to is the vile hate filled shit spewed by the mail readers who think that the rest of Europe is a backwards hellhole. Whilst we are the best of the best when we will sink without trace

 

[HovaGirl]

I dont know about the love part !!

Ever read "A Thousand Years Of Annoying The French"? Brilliant.

 

[soistes]

There are several different recessions going on in different countries for different reasons. It is the knock-on effect of all these recessions which makes it global. For the UK, the three main causes of our own recession are:
1. We pay out more in benefits than we receive for it in taxes.
2. The banks mucked up
3. We pay too much money to other countries, either to bail out European countries, or as a member of the European Club, or in aid to growing economies such as India and others, or in benefits to immigrants and asylum-seekers who have not contributed to the system themselves.
Basically, the UK is paying out far more than it receives. It needs to reduce its outgoings, or increase its income. At the moment, it can do neither.

Of your three reasons, I think you'll find that most economists would agree that the most important one is number 2. Another poster has commented on 3. As far as 1 is concerned, the tax take in the UK is significantly greater than benefit expenditure (not least because a lot of what taxes are spent on is not benefits at all -- remember the education system, the NHS, roads and stuff like that??). Further most benefit expenditure goes on (not very generous) old age pensions. Further still, the thing about money spent on benefits is that, in a recession it actually has quite a stimulating countercyclical effect on the economy, because benefit recipients, being mostly poor, have a high propensity to consume (ie they don't save what they get, they spend it on goods and services, which helps the economy), unlike money going to the banks etc which has mainly been used to deleverage their balance sheets.

 

[User removed 4]

Ever read "A Thousand Years Of Annoying The French"? Brilliant.

I will now!

 

[HovaGirl]

In what way did you lose 10 years of your life? Genuine question.

I was living a life that wasn't my own. I had to give up my blossoming new career and couldn't work abroad, so became a lady who lunched, or sat in coffee bars in the sun, and that can get boring as well as expensive. As we had no family there, and no real friends, apart from other ex-pats in a few bars, all we had to do to fill the time at weekends, was sit in coffee bars in the sun, which cost 20 euros a time. (2 coffees each.) I couldn't do my research hobby, because I couldn't visit libraries in the UK, but I did have the internet and increasing stuff available there, so I became something of a recluse. I rarely saw my children and their lives changed so much, that we lost some of that closeness we'd developed by seeing each other more regularly. I'd just become secretary of a political party, and even had to give that up. etc, etc.

 

[soistes]

I was living a life that wasn't my own. I had to give up my blossoming new career and couldn't work abroad, so became a lady who lunched, or sat in coffee bars in the sun, and that can get boring as well as expensive. As we had no family there, and no real friends, apart from other ex-pats in a few bars, all we had to do to fill the time at weekends, was sit in coffee bars in the sun, which cost 20 euros a time. (2 coffees each.) I couldn't do my research hobby, because I couldn't visit libraries in the UK, but I did have the internet and increasing stuff available there, so I became something of a recluse. I rarely saw my children and their lives changed so much, that we lost some of that closeness we'd developed by seeing each other more regularly. I'd just become secretary of a political party, and even had to give that up. etc, etc.

What was the political party, just out of interest?

 

[JCL666]

If it is , you're the back end of the horse, with the associated lack of vision.

You're the Dame and your sole purpose is to say stupid things that we can all laugh at.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I was living a life that wasn't my own. I had to give up my blossoming new career and couldn't work abroad, so became a lady who lunched, or sat in coffee bars in the sun, and that can get boring as well as expensive. As we had no family there, and no real friends, apart from other ex-pats in a few bars, all we had to do to fill the time at weekends, was sit in coffee bars in the sun, which cost 20 euros a time. (2 coffees each.) I couldn't do my research hobby, because I couldn't visit libraries in the UK, but I did have the internet and increasing stuff available there, so I became something of a recluse. I rarely saw my children and their lives changed so much, that we lost some of that closeness we'd developed by seeing each other more regularly. I'd just become secretary of a political party, and even had to give that up. etc, etc.

Where were you living?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're the Dame and your sole purpose is to say stupid things that we can all laugh at.

Very funny. But be careful though; the last person who alluded to, and I quote, 'feminising' Bushy was offered out!

 

[CheeseRolls]

Yes, the traditional Saturday job has gone. This used to give our teenagers a bit of money of their own and a bit of experience of the working world. The traditional student jobs have gone from the coffee bars, pubs and restaurants which used to supplement student living and also give them experience of the working world. And because Poles, and others, have been here so long, they are even making it up the management ladder in those kinds of low-paid jobs, denying our young even that route to career progression.

So it's the Poles.

I started part time work when I was 11 and by the time I was 16 I was running a portfolio of part time jobs, which gave me a generous amount of disposable income. Strangely this didn't include coffee shops, as even drinking instant coffee at home was seen as too continental for many. By contrast my two teenage sons have never done a days paid work between them and I agree it is a shame that these opportunities are scarce these days.

I like to think some of the following may have contributed.

1 More women in the work place - when combined with the need to be flexible around childcare, many mothers and indeed grandmothers are prepared to work the irregular hours, that used to be backfilled by youngsters.

2 The flexibility of employment laws - I was reading an analysis of UK unemployment figures this morning, that argues that the headline unemployment figures for the UK right now are comparatively good, but that the figures disguise the underlying trend for people to be underemployed e.g. large numbers of people working less hours than they would like. Look at the number of people commenting on this site that they have to work Saturdays, but would prefer not to.

3 The ageing population - Not only do we have the grey workforce competing with the youngsters for jobs in B&Q we also have an ageing population supported by a shrinking workforce. Take a look at the situation in Japan and tell me if you would happily trade places with their economic situation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I was living a life that wasn't my own. I had to give up my blossoming new career and couldn't work abroad, so became a lady who lunched, or sat in coffee bars in the sun, and that can get boring as well as expensive. As we had no family there, and no real friends, apart from other ex-pats in a few bars, all we had to do to fill the time at weekends, was sit in coffee bars in the sun, which cost 20 euros a time. (2 coffees each.) I couldn't do my research hobby, because I couldn't visit libraries in the UK, but I did have the internet and increasing stuff available there, so I became something of a recluse. I rarely saw my children and their lives changed so much, that we lost some of that closeness we'd developed by seeing each other more regularly. I'd just become secretary of a political party, and even had to give that up. etc, etc.

The upside is that you're fluent in Greek though. You are arent you?

 

[User removed 4]

You're the Dame and your sole purpose is to say stupid things that we can all laugh at.

I'm usually cast as the villain on here.