Smacking

[Simster]

To me, there appears to be two debates going on here:
1) Is smacking right under any circumstances?
And
2) Are there any circumstances where smacking is understandable, and if so what sort of allowances should be made from a social/legal point of view?

I'd say it's not right but can easily see how it happens. Anyone who has never had children will not understand just how tiring it can be.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Oh Rusthall - you are not worth the f***ing effort.

I find Bozza and the other guy hilarious. You get yourself involved in a debate and then when someone offers an opposing view and is adamant about it you stop debating and start calling names and being sarcastic, trying to catch people out rather than actually debating. And you wonder why I referred to you as a fool.

I thought you wanted a debate ? My view is opposite to yours .....

Why is it not worth the effort ? I actually think it is a VERY valid argument.

 

[Bozza]

Firstly a decent parent would not raise a child to misbehave in public

Have you ever actually spent any time around a child?

There's probably not a parent alive who hasn't had their little angel play up in public and those parents are still decent parents. These little people get hot, they get tired, they get over-tired, they get excited, they get angry. And, unlike us big people, expressing how they feel is more difficult. They're still learning about how to interact with the big wide world. And sometimes, just sometimes, they get it wrong and very much misbehave in public. But the parents are still decent.

You really have no idea, do you?

 

[Nibble]

You see Nipple, that is how you set your stall out. No ifs, no buts. ANYONE who has ever smacked their child, however hard, under whatever provocation or any circumstances is a is a cruel, weak, heartless, lazy, spineless child abuser.

If you truly believe that, then you must be a one-eyed simpleton. Please please please tell me that you could envisage certain situations where a parent might smack a child (even if they later regret doing so) and NOT fall into this neat category of yours - of cruel, weak, heartless, lazy, spineless child abuser.

I can believe what I wish to believe and not have to get called a simpleton. I am well aware of how this opinion comes across without you having to patronisingly explain it. It is something I believe firmly in and I am happy to take flak for it if it is reasonable well thought out debate, not Bozza trying to catch people out with semantics and constant put-downs.

 

[Buzzer]

To me, there appears to be two debates going on here:
1) Is smacking right under any circumstances?
And
2) Are there any circumstances where smacking is understandable, and if so what sort of allowances should be made from a social/legal point of view?

I'd say it's not right but can easily see how it happens. Anyone who has never had children will not understand just how tiring it can be.

For me

1) No

2) Yes. It's all about the context and that action

..and no-one is ever the perfect parent. We all just try our best and do what we think is right. I'm lucky. My 2 boys are lovely little boys and a pleasure to parent.

 

[Simster]

I can believe what I wish to believe and not have to get called a simpleton. I am well aware of how this opinion comes across without you having to patronisingly explain it. It is something I believe firmly in and I am happy to take flak for it if it is reasonable well thought out debate, not Bozza trying to catch people out with semantics and constant put-downs.

Fair enough, it's just that your opinions mean little to me because you've clearly never been the guardian of a child.

The again, if your dad did beat the shit out of you, I can understand why you're so one-eyed about it - so I do respect you for that. But that's not really what I'm arguing about here.

 

[Nibble]

Have you ever actually spent any time around a child?

There's probably not a parent alive who hasn't had their little angel play up in public and those parents are still decent parents. These little people get hot, they get tired, they get over-tired, they get excited, they get angry. And, unlike us big people, expressing how they feel is more difficult. They're still learning about how to interact with the big wide world. And sometimes, just sometimes, they get it wrong and very much misbehave in public. But the parents are still decent.

You really have no idea, do you?

Right Bozza. I will concede that kids will play up in public for the reasons you stated. And I wil lbacktracjk a little and say that it does not make a bad parent. So your child is hot, sweaty, tired fed up? Give em a whack? nice one.

And yes I have spent a lot of time around children. My parents (my stepdad, not my real dad) owned three day nurseries when I was growing up. My mum is a foster mother that looks after children form 3 months to 15 years most with behaviourial problems and she has nevr once resorted to smacking any of them in 40 years.

 

[Simster]

For me

1) No

2) Yes. It's all about the context and that action

..and no-one is ever the perfect parent. We all just try our best and do what we think is right. I'm lucky. My 2 boys are lovely little boys and a pleasure to parent.

That's me too. Except I have a little boy and a little girl. They're both ACE.

 

[Bozza]

Right Bozza. I will concede that kids will play up in public for the reasons you stated. And I wil lbacktracjk a little and say that it does not make a bad parent. So your child is hot, sweaty, tired fed up? Give em a whack? nice one.

I'm not sure I (or anyone else for that matter) advocated such a reaction. Maybe I missed it.

And yes I have spent a lot of time around children. My parents owned three day nurseries when I was growing up. My mum is a foster mother that looks after children form 3 months to 15 years most with behaviourial problems and she has nevr once resorted to smacking any of them in 40 years.

Is that because she left that side of it to your old man?

My dad beat the shit out of me.

There's no way I'd want to put my daughter in a day nursery run by a couple where the father beat the shit out of his own children.

 

[Brovion]

There's probably not a parent alive who hasn't had their little angel play up in public and those parents are still decent parents. These little people get hot, they get tired, they get over-tired, they get excited, they get angry. And, unlike us big people, expressing how they feel is more difficult. They're still learning about how to interact with the big wide world. And sometimes, just sometimes, they get it wrong and very much misbehave in public. But the parents are still decent.

That is true. And although I haven't smacked my kids I HAVE used physical force on them. One day we were in a toy shop and my (then) three year old son said he wanted a remote controlled car. A short discussion then ensued with me saying that he just couldn't have things whenever he wanted, but he could have one for Christmas (which was less than a month away). He said he wanted one NOW! He then picked a box off the shelf and started to walk out of the shop. I physically restrained him, took it off him, and then carried him screaming out of the shop (with everybody staring at us obviously). In short I used my superior strength to impose my will on him.

 

[Nibble]

I'm not sure I (or anyone else for that matter) advocated such a reaction. Maybe I missed it.




Is that because she left that side of it to your old man?



There's no way I'd want to put my daughter in a day nursery run by a couple where the father beat the shit out of his own children.

Firstly you will note that it says my Stepdad not my Dad. Secondly how f***ing dare you say something like that. You enjoy being that personal do you? Well done you succeeded in winding me up. You truly are a stupid, ineffectual little man Bozza. You add nothing to a debate, you just stir it all up with sematics and pedantry and the reason for this? Who knows? But you are a nastly little man.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Time to bow out.

Nibble - I understand your sentiments - and as I say we managed to bring up our children wthout smacking - but it happens. And there are degrees - some really are child abusers - but most people are just reacting to trying circumstances. And that does not make them bad people. And I believe at that level it does not harm the children. We are got smacked at school - and it was water off a ducks back.

 

[Nibble]

Bozza. You are a little keyboard warrior. You strike me as one of those whiny little maggots at school who would runa away just as they were shouting an insult. Pathetic little ****.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Firstly you will note that it says my Stepdad not my Dad. Secondly how f***ing dare you say something like that. You enjoy being that personal do you? Well done you succeeded in winding me up. You truly are a stupid, ineffectual little man Bozza. You add nothing to a debate, you just stir it all up with sematics and pedantry and the reason for this? Who knows? But you are a nastly little man.

There is no debate though NIBBLE is there ?


you say what the f*** you like and then complain if somebody pulls it apart. HOW DARE you say that anyone who smacks their child is an ABUSER ?

 

[Brovion]

Time to bow out.

Nibble - I understand your sentiments - and as I say we managed to bring up our children wthout smacking - but it happens. And there are degrees - some really are child abusers - but most people are just reacting to trying circumstances. And that does not make them bad people. And I believe at that level it does not harm the children. We are got smacked at school - and it was water off a ducks back.

Totally agree. Also, what is a smack? An open-palmed slap with minimum force from my wife wouldn't hurt a fly. One from Lennox Lewis might be slightly different. It would be a legal minefield.

 

[Simster]

My dad beat the shit out of me

Firstly you will note that it says my Stepdad not my Dad.
Secondly how f***ing dare you say something like that.

Sorry Nipple, but I was thinking the very same thing. Or are we all supposed to read your mind that when you say dad you mean stepdad?

Either way, by inference, your mum was living with someone who beat the shit out of you. Bozza's conclusion that he doesn't want his kids being looked after by a woman who lives with a child beater really isn't that unreasonable is it?

 

[Bozza]

Bozza. You are a little keyboard warrior. You strike me as one of those whiny little maggots at school who would runa away just as they were shouting an insult. Pathetic little ****.

Blimey - you do get all worked up about this stuff don't you?

Anyway, I've never smacked my 5 year old. We do have great pillow fights though and I must confess to using my superior strength, not to mention arm length to deliver a few cracking blows on occasion. She just laughs though, so I must be doing something wrong.

 

[NMH]

Firstly a decent parent would not raise a child to misbehave in public and secondly you can bleat on about discipline all you like and it being an extension of love etc but there are many forms of discipline, smacking being the laziest and in the long run the least effective.

Patience is also an expression of love.

You may be right in naming smacking as a 'cheap alternative' to another quieter form of discipline. However, like a blue-rinsed old bird telling their nastily yap-yap-nipping little pooch off with something sounding more like praise - the growl, or the lesson handed out would have to be incisive and hit home better than a simple explanation as to why what they did was wrong.
When very young, the withholding of food/treats might suffice as deterrent from mischief. When a little older, locking in their room and depriving them of time socialising could work. After this, they 'ought' to love and respect you as a parent enough, not to want to upset you in preference to impressing their mates.
There'll always be that nasty surprise though, that will test the patience and may require 'instant karma'. imho.

 

[Lokki 7]

Bozza. You are a little keyboard warrior. You strike me as one of those whiny little maggots at school who would runa away just as they were shouting an insult. Pathetic little ****.

Go on NIBBLE, give him a smack.

 

[Nibble]

Sorry Nipple, but I was thinking the very same thing. Or are we all supposed to read your mind that when you say dad you mean stepdad?

Either way, by inference, your mum was living with someone who beat the shit out of you. Bozza's conclusion that he doesn't want his kids being looked after by a woman who lives with a child beater really isn't that unreasonable is it?

Read it properly then.

Bozzas coclusion comes from trying to wind people up.