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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)







marlowe

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2015
4,490
....
The tweet from Pence yesterday was interesting as pence has always been a ‘yes sir, no sir‘ when it comes to Trump.
.....
Well he certainly said "no sir" when Trump demanded that he should refuse to certify the election on 6th Jan 2021, and then Trump did nothing to quell the chants of "hang Mike Pence" by the MAGA mob. I don't suppose Pence's attitude towards Trump was ever the same after that.
 


Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
Well he certainly said "no sir" when Trump demanded that he should refuse to certify the election on 6th Jan 2021, and then Trump did nothing to quell the chants of "hang Mike Pence" by the MAGA mob. I don't suppose Pence's attitude towards Trump was ever the same after that.
I think Pence was chosen by the Trump camp as his mind had never been violated by an original thought.
 




marlowe

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2015
4,490
And now he’s saying that Putin holds all the cards in the negotiations….really?! Only if Trump lets him, surely. Putin’s cards presumably include the much rumoured Trump video
Maybe Putin used various stills from the alleged video to create a set of pictorial novelty playing cards. These might be the actual cards Trump is referring to rather than using the term figuratively.
 




fly high

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
1,951
in a house
On the BBC New site, Trump's man going all bully boy:-

Kyiv needs to rein in criticism of US & sign the deal, White House security adviser says​

published at 14:14

Mike Waltz
Image source, Reuters
White House National Security Adviser Michael Waltz says Ukraine needs to rein in its criticism of the US, as Washington tries to secure a peace deal to end the war.
"It's unacceptable, they [Ukraine] need to tone it down and take a hard look and sign that deal," he tells Fox News. The deal he is referring to is a push by Donald Trump for access to rare minerals in Ukraine in return for aid, or even as compensation for the support the US has already provided.
"We presented the Ukrainians really an incredible, and a historic opportunity," the adviser says, adding that it would be "sustainable" and "the best" security guarantee they could hope for.
Zelensky has publicly rejected an American bid to gain access to – and profit from - Ukrainian minerals, saying: "I can't sell our state."
But he says that the two countries can reconcile their differences.
 


Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
On the BBC New site, Trump's man going all bully boy:-

Kyiv needs to rein in criticism of US & sign the deal, White House security adviser says​

published at 14:14

Mike Waltz
Image source, Reuters
White House National Security Adviser Michael Waltz says Ukraine needs to rein in its criticism of the US, as Washington tries to secure a peace deal to end the war.
"It's unacceptable, they [Ukraine] need to tone it down and take a hard look and sign that deal," he tells Fox News. The deal he is referring to is a push by Donald Trump for access to rare minerals in Ukraine in return for aid, or even as compensation for the support the US has already provided.
"We presented the Ukrainians really an incredible, and a historic opportunity," the adviser says, adding that it would be "sustainable" and "the best" security guarantee they could hope for.
Zelensky has publicly rejected an American bid to gain access to – and profit from - Ukrainian minerals, saying: "I can't sell our state."
But he says that the two countries can reconcile their differences.
To me this shows that Zelensky has a strong hand, it’s a case of trying to bullying him into submission which isn’t going to happen. It’s about resources and nothing to do with a peace deal.
 






Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
54,469
Goldstone
The Russian population is 144million, whereas the combined population of the EU, UK and NATO members Canada and Turkey is c 640 million.

In 2023 Russia's GDP was 2.02 trillion, Canada's alone is 2.14 trillion, the UK's is 3.4 trillion, Turkey 1.12 trillion and the EU is c. 12 trillion.

Therefore, in terms of manpower and money then what is left of NATO still dwarves Russia. Their economy is weak and their ruler is old, and when peace comes they will find they have less friends than before the war. This is not the Soviet Union of old.

Granted, the immediate threat is sizeable but in numerical terms the Russian threat should be able to be managed, with or without the USA.

Exactly. We need to make it clear that regardless what the US do, we will support Ukraine until Russia is defeated.

Trump is an idiot, but at some point it will become clear to him that Putin's wishes cannot be met, and Trump is backing the loser. He doesn't want to be a loser, so he'll have to change.

When Europe increase their military spending, as we have to, Trump can claim that was his goal all along.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
54,469
Goldstone
Maybe - but if Ukraine doesn’t get that land back, Trump will presumably try for a rare earth deal with Putin (if he hasn’t already)

Trump could dream of that, and Putin could pretend it was on offer, but America would never get it. Putin claims that the land is Russian, so there's no way he'd give any of the resources to the US.
 


SouthSaxon

Stand or fall
NSC Patron
Jan 25, 2025
93
To me this shows that Zelensky has a strong hand, it’s a case of trying to bullying him into submission which isn’t going to happen. It’s about resources and nothing to do with a peace deal.
Paul Warburg’s latest suggests this is happening because they’re realising that the bully tactics aren’t working and this is the first step in blaming Ukraine when they walk away. Hope he’s right about that.
 






Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
Paul Warburg’s latest suggests this is happening because they’re realising that the bully tactics aren’t working and this is the first step in blaming Ukraine when they walk away. Hope he’s right about that.
Totally agree. I posted something similar a couple of days ago. He’ll go a play golf instead.
 


















raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,313
Wiltshire
On the BBC New site, Trump's man going all bully boy:-

Kyiv needs to rein in criticism of US & sign the deal, White House security adviser says​

published at 14:14

Mike Waltz
Image source, Reuters
White House National Security Adviser Michael Waltz says Ukraine needs to rein in its criticism of the US, as Washington tries to secure a peace deal to end the war.
"It's unacceptable, they [Ukraine] need to tone it down and take a hard look and sign that deal," he tells Fox News. The deal he is referring to is a push by Donald Trump for access to rare minerals in Ukraine in return for aid, or even as compensation for the support the US has already provided.
"We presented the Ukrainians really an incredible, and a historic opportunity," the adviser says, adding that it would be "sustainable" and "the best" security guarantee they could hope for.
Zelensky has publicly rejected an American bid to gain access to – and profit from - Ukrainian minerals, saying: "I can't sell our state."
But he says that the two countries can reconcile their differences.
What an effing few days
 


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