Rascism

[Dave the OAP]

quite

 

[fatbadger]

It isn't offensive, no words are.

Words are not universal 'things', floating around in a contextless void - they carry context (called 'connotation') which is as much part of the meaning as the dictionary definition (called 'denotation').

 

[looney]

As I said fatty, words arn't offensive in them selves it depends on the context they are used.

 

[fatbadger]

To those of you going on about the Paki/Turk thing, is that racist? What has that to do with Race? What if they sang, "I'd rather be Pakistani than Turkish"? It's the slang word "Paki" that offends you, not what they are singing. It has become a derogatory term over the years for people from Pakistan (which thick people also called Indians). Are you offended by being called a "Brit" or a Scot a "Scot" or a Swede a "Swede". It is has nothing to do with the race of a person and cannot be put into the same context as racist abuse to Black players or any Black person or any other race even the White European race. It is about a certain country. "Turk" is about Turkish people and the only reason you aren't allowed to say is "Paki" is due to previous use of it by ignorant idiots over the years. You can say Pakistani. I myself would not sing it because I think it's a stupid pointless chant. But to all those that want to use it at a game against Turkish teams I say, Sing "Pakistani" and not "Paki". That'll stump the PC brigade and press that won't have anything to write about on the subject.

Time to resign your commission - there's nothing sensible about this.

Rather than the lexis, look at the grammar of the sentence 'I would rather be a Paki than a Turk'.

It sets up a hierarchy, presumably based on national stereotypes, between Turks and Pakistanis. Why would you not want to be a Pakistani? What is the relevance of preferring to be a Turk? Is it so surprising or odd that you would want to be a Turk (rather than a national of another country)?

 

[fatbadger]

As I said fatty, words arn't offensive in them selves it depends on the context they are used.

and I said - as you most certainly did not - that context is part of the word, not just some other 'thing' that may or may not be associated with the word.

Words can be offensive in themselves - because their connotations in in them.

 

[looney]

and I said - as you most certainly did not - that context is part of the word, not just some other 'thing' that may or may not be associated with the word.

Words can be offensive in themselves - because their connotations in in them.

Only if you have preconceived notions which may or maynot be exaustive or wrong.

Friggin pedantic fat git.

 

[berkshire seagull]

If i worked with a shite load of paki's and they called me a white honkey i bet the old bill would ignore it.

I saw a kosovan or whatever grabbing and shouting at an english bird a couple a weeks ago and called him a foriegn cu-nt is that racist.

 

[fatbadger]

Only if you have preconceived notions which may or maynot be exaustive or wrong.

Oh, come on looney, this isn't difficult. Surely even you can understand it.

 

[Brovion]

I tend to agree with fatbadger, the context is everything, without context every word just becomes a sound.

Take the words Aussie and Paki. Both are formed in exactly the same way (first syllable of the country with the diminutive 'ee' sound added) but I don't know of a single Aussie who finds the word 'Aussie' offensive. They call themselves Aussies and they don't mind anybody else calling them Aussies. Therefore it is NOT offensive.

Pakistanis on the other hand sometimes do find it offensive. Indians find it EXTREMELY offensive in the same way that some Scots (perhaps that's 'most' now) take offence when someone abroad says to them 'Are you English?'

It may cause offence - so don't use it.

 

[Southy]

The point is, its all about context. I think we all know that the word 'paki' is generally used as a term of abuse by white people. Not always 100% but generally it is used in a degoratory way. The bloke who runs my cornershop is an Indian Hindu, but reguarly gets abused by the various alcoholics and junkies as a 'f***ing paki ****' when he catches them shoplifting (i know ive seen it). Besides the fact these pondlife make ashamed to be English (or scottish), he never rings the Police or gets angry, he just tells them to leave and remains calm. People like him deal with this kind of blatant raciscm on a daily basis and I respect him far more than these whingeing fuckers who come on here complaing about the good old days when you could use the word 'paki' without the pc brigade saying its wrong. Try being asian for a day and then say 'paki' without thinking its a nasty little insult. Raciscm is wrong full stop and it is a fact that if your white you are not going to know what it is to experience it.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Pakistanis on the other hand sometimes do find it offensive. Indians find it EXTREMELY offensive in the same way that some Scots (perhaps that's 'most' now) take offence when someone abroad says to them 'Are you English?'

It may cause offence - so don't use it.

Ka-Blam!!

Exactly. Much easier just to not use it at all, just in case somebody does take offence. Its the same with a lot of things. Some ginger haired people i've met take offence at being called 'ginge' or something, silly i know but they say that because its used at all means that the person is trying to offend. Weak exaample i know but true none the less.

 

[Fridge Man]

Raciscm is wrong full stop and it is a fact that if your white you are not going to know what it is to experience it.

So racism is all one way then eh? get in the real world chum....p the majority of racism in this country is DIRECTED AT WHITE people.

 

[rool]

The problem is that we live in the real world and some people are just not nice at all whether they are black or white etc. All you can do is live your life being as good as you possibly can and treat people how you want to be treated and hope that you lead by example to your peers. You'll go mad trying to correct all the wrongs in the world.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So racism is all one way then eh? get in the real world chum....p the majority of racism in this country is DIRECTED AT WHITE people.

Is that some kind of joke?

 

[Fridge Man]

nope government statistics old boy

 

[Southy]

So racism is all one way then eh? get in the real world chum....p the majority of racism in this country is DIRECTED AT WHITE people.

You have got to be joking. you sound like a BNP supporter. What a pathetic statement. We live in a 90% white country, how can you back up that statement?

 

[Yorkie]

This is the official line on the use of Paki.

Ananova

Fan banned after racist terrace chant

A soccer fan who took part in a racist terrace chant featuring the word 'Paki' has been banned from Premiership and Nationwide League grounds for three years.

Port Vale supporter Sean Ratcliffe, 21, was also fined £150 and ordered to pay £120 in costs after his case was referred back to Stoke-on-Trent Magistrates' Court by the High Court in London.

Ratcliffe, of Wade Street, Burslem, Stoke-on-Trent, was originally acquitted of racist chanting by a magistrate in January, who dismissed the offending song as "mere doggerel".

The Crown Prosecution Service then appealed against that ruling, and High Court judges ordered Ratcliffe to be convicted and sent the case back to the lower court.

Defence solicitor Ray Moreland told today's hearing that his client was bemused that the case had attracted national media attention.

Mr Moreland told the court: "He is a young man who is not acquainted with the criminal justice system. He was not arrested on the day in question and was in fact arrested on the day of the next home game.

"As far as he was concerned the song was a joke and there was no intended malice against any coloured person whatsoever."

The solicitor added that the father-of-one, who is currently receiving incapacity benefits, had befriended an Asian man during a recent stay in hospital and that the friend was as bemused as his client by 'all the fuss' surrounding the case.

Ratcliffe was among an estimated 50-100 Port Vale supporters who took up the chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis", directed at Oldham Athletic fans during a league match at Vale Park last October.

Lord Justice Auld, sitting with Mr Justice Goldring at the High Court, ruled last month that there was no doubt that the word Paki was racially offensive and could not be used in the same way as words such as 'Brit or Yank.


Story filed: 11:28 Thursday 17th July 2003

 

[bhanuts]

What is this world coming to! A bit of banter ends up with you getting nicked!

What about all the chants of a town full of faggots! I take great offense to that! Arrest them all!!!

 

[Fridge Man]

You have got to be joking. you sound like a BNP supporter. What a pathetic statement. We live in a 90% white country, how can you back up that statement?

No im not a BNP supporter but even if i was what business is it of yours

Statistics for 1997
Total Racial Attacks 381,000
White Victims 238,000
Asian Victims 101,000
Black Victims 42,000

I believe recently a Labour MP in Oldham admitted 75% of race attacks were directed at whites

Listen all racism is wrong but it is a two way thing

 

[Southy]

No im not a BNP supporter but even if i was what business is it of yours
Because they are a bunch of nazi fuckwits who come out with the sort of bollocks you are posting on this thread, so either you are or you aren't, but I'd bet you vote them you racist.

Statistics for 1997
Total Racial Attacks 381,000
White Victims 238,000
!!!?? Where did you get these statistics? I dont believe it, and untill you post your source we have to treat it as the bollocks it is.

Asian Victims 101,000
Black Victims 42,000

I believe recently a Labour MP in Oldham admitted 75% of race attacks were directed at whites

So what about when combat 18 Stoke fans narched in Oldham before a game chanting 'Town full of Pakis' and caused a race riot - Acceptable?