Can Labour actually win the next election and make a difference?

[beorhthelm]

Now in Germany, Trade Unions are considered as VITAL stakeholders in the running of PRIVATE Companies. They work WITH Company management to ensure workers rights are respected, and that workers view themselves as much as 'owners' as the shareholders themselves. Contrast that with this country, where an employee is expected to do as you are told, or get out.

in Germany they are Work Councils and function differently from Trade Unions, they are organised and run locally by the local workers, not to some thrid party's agenda. where the same template has been used here, its worked well too (JCB iirc). also, economically China is capitialist, and they have the same worker/owner problems steming from conflict of interest as the west.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

maybe bright, but a short memeory. he's the one that gave us the current energy policy thats lumping on 20%+ costs on our bills for green/lower emission power, and cancelled Kingsnorth while effectivly banning new coal power stations for a generation. he now wants to freeze the prices of energy. he didnt say which policy or subsidy was going to go to allow this to be possible. someone above complained that we dont forward plan enough in this country, today power companies will be postponing investment until after 2017.

And his policies which the Tories continued have allowed the big six suppliers to nearly DOUBLE their profits in between 2009 and 2012 screwing us the consumer into the ground. It's hypocritical of Milliband to suddenly suggest he's the energy consumers saviour when he helped put us in the situation. Equally I have no time for the energy companies who now clear over £4bn in profit annually whilst increasing prices and spending on lavish entertainment for their staff ( who also get decent bonuses ). In fact the energy companies are no better than the banks

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Not sure it is always divide and rule.Reckon a number of politicians and commentators seem to admire the John Lewis way of doing business and it seems to work for the company.

True, you can also say the same for BMW-Mini, Honda, Toyota and Dyson but how many of them have learned there management skills from our politicians? And there's the rub. Our politicians are CONSTANTLY living in the past, and fighting ancient wars, that just aren't relevant anymore.

 

[beorhthelm]

Isn't the whole idea behind a price cap on gas and electricity prices to tell the energy cartel they won't get away with ripping off customers ? When the price cap ends in 2017 there will be a new regulator in place because Ofgem has been toothless.

the idea behind the price cap is to give a nice popularist policy to the electorate, willfully ignoring that most of the bill increase of the past decade are due to government policy to introduce green taxes, force infrastructure changes, subsidise low carbon generation, and most recently enforce smart meter rollout. Ofgem is applying government policy, much of which Miliband implemented as Energy Secretary.

 

[BLOCK F]

True, you can also say the same for BMW-Mini, Honda, Toyota and Dyson but how many of them have learned there management skills from our politicians? And there's the rub. Our politicians are CONSTANTLY living in the past, and fighting ancient wars, that just aren't relevant anymore.

I don't necessarily disagree with you,but think it a tad harsh to tar all politicians with the same brush.
Now there is a thought,how many M.P.'s(especially Labour) have ever done a proper job in their lives and have any concept of how business works?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think this is the direction the UK should go. I would vote for you (If I could)

But getting the parties to agree to it would be nigh on impossible. The only coalitions there have been in the UK since the 2nd world war have been through desperation to be in charge from the larger party.

That's nice. I have been blathering on and boring NSC for years about how the UK should copy Germany. 34064 Fighter Command pops up with one post on the subject and you say you will vote for him. What about me!

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I don't necessarily disagree with you,but think it a tad harsh to tar all politicians with the same brush.
Now there is a thought,how many M.P.'s(especially Labour) have ever done a proper job in their lives and have any concept of how business works?

About 2% is my guess, and most of those soon realise they're much happier ditching Politics and going back to businesses. But it doesn't just have to be businessmen, How many Education Ministers have taught in a classroom, how many of our Defence Secretaries have fought a battle or served in the Military, how many Chancellors of the Exchequer have been qualified Accountants, how many Transport Secretaries have built a motorway. No, they're all priviledged types who have never actually had to earn a WAGE, but can rely on wealthy sponsors or trust funds.

The House of 'Lords' should be rebranded the House of 'Experts' and it should be made up of people who've actually done the real world jobs we're talking about. But no, once again we bog our 2nd chamber down with traditional class based structures that mean the average person has no real chance of actually forming policy unless they are consulted by a 'focus group'. Ugh.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

in Germany they are Work Councils and function differently from Trade Unions, they are organised and run locally by the local workers, not to some thrid party's agenda. where the same template has been used here, its worked well too (JCB iirc). also, economically China is capitialist, and they have the same worker/owner problems steming from conflict of interest as the west.

I think there needs to be a huge culture change within the boardrooms of big business though. All they care about is the bottom line in the UK, or building up a business to sell on at a profit. It is very different over here. The staff are very valued and not just seen as chumps on minimum wage. One of the former VW work council/union leaders wrote a book about his experiences....and the title roughly translates to the easiest job in the world; the point being that VW valued their staff, paid them well, looked after everyone and the community and he had little to do when negotiating wages. The joke was that if you lived in Wolfsburg and could hold a screwdriver you were sorted. Contrast this to the endless screwing of staff in the UK.

This also has wider implications for the economy as happy secure well paid employees wil spend more than those on low wages, zero hours contracts and/or worried about their jobs.

The UK will never have what is available over here in my life time; it is too progressive and the cultural and mindset change will take a few generations at least.

 

[BLOCK F]

I think there needs to be a huge culture change within the boardrooms of big business though. All they care about is the bottom line in the UK, or building up a business to sell on at a profit. It is very different over here. The staff are very valued and not just seen as chumps on minimum wage. One of the former VW work council/union leaders wrote a book about his experiences....and the title roughly translates to the easiest job in the world; the point being that VW valued their staff, paid them well, looked after everyone and the community and he had little to do when negotiating wages. The joke was that if you lived in Wolfsburg and could hold a screwdriver you were sorted. Contrast this to the endless screwing of staff in the UK.

This also has wider implications for the economy as happy secure well paid employees wil spend more than those on low wages, zero hours contracts and/or worried about their jobs.

The UK will never have what is available over here in my life time; it is too progressive and the cultural and mindset change will take a few generations at least.

Pleased to hear good things about VW as they are one of my shareholdings.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

That's nice. I have been blathering on and boring NSC for years about how the UK should copy Germany. 34064 Fighter Command pops up with one post on the subject and you say you will vote for him. What about me!

Rest assured mein Herr, ich habe keine politischen Ambitionen. Whilst the House of Commons makes a good case for joining a debating society, it's a crap way to get a Country governed. We might hold our politicians in better esteem if Cabinet was televised.

In fact that's what I propose - open Cabinet up as a live television broadcast and people can comment just like Question Time, with everyone around the PM's table being able to view the viewers comments on a big screen.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

And his policies which the Tories continued have allowed the big six suppliers to nearly DOUBLE their profits in between 2009 and 2012 screwing us the consumer into the ground. It's hypocritical of Milliband to suddenly suggest he's the energy consumers saviour when he helped put us in the situation. Equally I have no time for the energy companies who now clear over £4bn in profit annually whilst increasing prices and spending on lavish entertainment for their staff ( who also get decent bonuses ). In fact the energy companies are no better than the banks

All the energy companies will do now is increase their prices. Your right it is hypocritcal of Milliband to do this, and like you I have absolutely no time for these energy companies either. Its a lose lose situation for everyone on poor wages. The energy companies have got everyone by the balls.

 

[BLOCK F]

All the energy companies will do now is increase their prices. Your right it is hypocritcal of Milliband to do this, and like you I have absolutely no time for these energy companies either. Its a lose lose situation for everyone on poor wages. The energy companies have got everyone by the balls.

So might you say have Tesco and Sainsbury.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So might you say have Tesco and Sainsbury.

To an extent I agree BUT there is reasonable competition in the supermarket sector ( for the customer rather than the supplier ). You can shop around and get decent deals between the supermarkets.

Trying to shop around the big six energy suppliers is pointless - they more or less cost the same ( with the odd gimmick ). Their prices always go up similar levels at similar times ( and never come down regardless of what wholesale prices do ). They are effectively manipulating the market and working together.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

All the energy companies will do now is increase their prices. Your right it is hypocritcal of Milliband to do this, and like you I have absolutely no time for these energy companies either. Its a lose lose situation for everyone on poor wages. The energy companies have got everyone by the balls.

I wonder, instead of an outright price freeze, why he didn't propose that the companies could only charge within a band above market wholesale rates, e.g. you can't charge what you like between 5% and 10% above wholesale rates. This gives them enough leeway to be competitive, but limits their scope for free-charging. You might have to make allowances for large capital projects, but seems to me to be more workable than fixing a freeze (which I don't think will work).

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

So might you say have Tesco and Sainsbury.

Customers still have an option to shop at Lidl and Aldi , with gas and electricity you're stuck with the Big 6.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So might you say have Tesco and Sainsbury.

Your right here too.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Even free market advocates have to accept at some stage, that there are some national utilities (i.e. of national importance) that cannot be allowed to operate unfettered. The way we have allowed energy companies to merge has created an OPEC like cartel. Leave that alone and before long you will have a single, privately owned monopoly, with no competition, or market, as such.

NPower, EDF and Centrica are behaving like British Airways, Pan Am and TWA. It took the likes of Freddie Laker, Virgin, United, and American Airlines to shake that out, and Pan Am and TWA are no longer around as a consequence. But the real worry is, are any of these companies producing LONG TERM planning in the way a state owned CEGB would have (and did) to ensure new power generation was funded, built and commissioned, in time.

I think what I'm saying is that State Owned Companies don't have to be bad, in fact they can be very good, if we, the electorate, elect Politicians who have even the tiniest clue about how to run them.

 

[osgood]

Or is it more political lies, to fool the electorate once again?

lots more hot air,

but they know that people take no interest or have such short memories,

that we all know they just had 13 years and managed to turn a solvent nation into a insolvent nation matters little to the reds

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I wonder, instead of an outright price freeze, why he didn't propose that the companies could only charge within a band above market wholesale rates, e.g. you can't charge what you like between 5% and 10% above wholesale rates. This gives them enough leeway to be competitive, but limits their scope for free-charging. You might have to make allowances for large capital projects, but seems to me to be more workable than fixing a freeze (which I don't think will work).

The problem is, that they are also electricity generators ( or gas drillers ), via their overseas owners (subsidiaries), so they can control the wholesale price AS WELL. EDF operate power stations in France, they can supply EDF in the UK at whatever rate they see fit to make a nice healthy profit. Centrica own gas fields as well as British Gas, and have a 20% stake in British Energy who own Nuclear Power stations. NPower are owned by RWE, who operate a large quantity of power stations ( 11 in total, all fossil fuel ). Now you can see how a conflict of interest might just occur.......

 

[beorhthelm]

I wonder, instead of an outright price freeze, why he didn't propose that the companies could only charge within a band above market wholesale rates, e.g. you can't charge what you like between 5% and 10% above wholesale rates.

i think you'll find thats already the case. its one of the most regulated industries, notwithstanding it has problems and a pretense of competition that doesnt exist (imo cant really), they are largly told what they can and cant invest in, and how much profit margin they can make. iirc SSE's proportion of profits from retail customers is only 19% (probably similar across the others), British Gas makes something like £65 profit average per customer, less than 5% margin. we see a big bill, we read about a big corporate profit number and we assume we've paid for that, energy is far more complex than that. the reality is, his bill freeze policy wont work unless he drops a subsidy, green tax or pays for it out of general taxation.