Can Labour actually win the next election and make a difference?

[Kalimantan Gull]

Do people really dislike Ed Milliband? Obviously if you hate all Labour then you will, but apart from those types? The most commonly-heard opinion I hear is that he seems alright but he's 'not electable' - but if he's not hated, if enough people vote for him then of course he will be elected.

We've done the charismatic leader stic with Blair and Cameron, is is not time to have someone a bit more down to earth and just get the job done? That's Milliband's bigest failing to me, trying to be something he's not, take Cameron on at his own game. He strikes me as a very bright guy and I wouldn't mind him being in charge.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Shit speech. I'm sick of politicians running this country down all the time. "We can rebuild Britain - together!" Rebuild? The **** makes it seem like Beirut, the fact is we are a great country with still a lot going for us. The economy is beginning to turn the corner, we have low inflation, low interest rates, finally some control over immigration, bank shares to sell back to the markets.

 

[beorhthelm]

... He strikes me as a very bright guy and I wouldn't mind him being in charge.

maybe bright, but a short memeory. he's the one that gave us the current energy policy thats lumping on 20%+ costs on our bills for green/lower emission power, and cancelled Kingsnorth while effectivly banning new coal power stations for a generation. he now wants to freeze the prices of energy. he didnt say which policy or subsidy was going to go to allow this to be possible. someone above complained that we dont forward plan enough in this country, today power companies will be postponing investment until after 2017.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

My major problem is that politics is a gamble. I'm asked every 5 years to back a team based on the loosest possible information which generally does not survive scrutiny. I wouldn't make an investment in that way so frustratingly, it has to be a punt. Show me the accounts.

 

[Perkino]

No...end of thread

 

[yxee]

Cap on gas prices for 2 years. He studied economics at Oxford and that's what he comes up with?

Why not cap food and rent as well, and while you're at it, plant some more of those trees that grow money.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

I always vote. Never forget that people died fighting for that right. It's why I believe it should be compulsory (together with the 'none of the above' option).

They fought so that it wouldn't be compulsory

 

[Albion Dan]

Im unlikely to be voting. The whole system is rotten and both parties are essentially exactly the same with minor nuances to create the illusion that we have some sort of choice.

 

[drew]

They fought so that it wouldn't be compulsory

That's a new slant on history! They fought for the right to vote from a position of not having it. My view is, out of respect for that struggle, everyone should exercise that right, even if that means voting for 'none of the above'. Most of those that I know who don't vote do so out of apathy but then spend the next five years moaning!

 

[maltaseagull]

I've said this before but exactly what juristiction did Labour have to tell the banks not to invest in US TOXIC debt that was packaged as AAA rated risk-free investments. With the benefit of hindsight, anybody could have stopped the economic crises.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the banks themselves for failing to carry out the so called expert analysis of what they were buying in the first place. Expertise which they were better placed than anybody else to have. If they couldn't spot a sows ear from a silk purse, then it's pretty unlikely a career politician is going to.

I would have preferred to see a few banks go the way of Lehmans to make sure the City of London really did sit up and take notice of what a crap job they were doing, and then start to self regulate themselves properly. The whole Libor rate scandal just proves that they've learnt NOTHING from their mistakes.

1st rule of investing ' caveat emptor '....... Let the buyer beware. And the banks were the buyers, not a parliamentary political party, or government.

As for Labour getting elected - if we want to emulate German prosperity we need a Left - Right coalition exactly as Chancellor Merkel is trying to forge, to get this Country back on it's feet. If our politicians can't manage to achieve that, then THEY have failed the country. Coalition and a broad level of consensus for the last 50+ years has meant that Germany, even with all the financial overheads of reunification, has become the most stable and economically powerful European nation. and we would do well to ditch left - right party politics, and replace them with Governments of 'National Unity', that stop going on about GB interests or economic ideaology, but actually comes up with a realistic set of targets, in a realistic timeframe, and then go ahead and sets out to achieve them.

This Country has failed to have a purpose or identity for the last 40 years, and without one, it's just going to continue muddling through. Crikey, even the French and Chinese are better at long term planning than we are (and in the case of the Chinese who were a complete basket case for decades that really speaks volumes ) - just how humiliating does that have to get....... We can't even get HS2 off the ground when everyone else has had High Speed Rail for decades. Just how Sh!t do we want this country to get. Even the Russians now look at us as a laughing stock ( 25 years ago they were in terrible trouble )........

I think this is the direction the UK should go. I would vote for you (If I could)

But getting the parties to agree to it would be nigh on impossible. The only coalitions there have been in the UK since the 2nd world war have been through desperation to be in charge from the larger party.

 

[BLOCK F]

maybe bright, but a short memeory. he's the one that gave us the current energy policy thats lumping on 20%+ costs on our bills for green/lower emission power, and cancelled Kingsnorth while effectivly banning new coal power stations for a generation. he now wants to freeze the prices of energy. he didnt say which policy or subsidy was going to go to allow this to be possible. someone above complained that we dont forward plan enough in this country, today power companies will be postponing investment until after 2017.

Sheer economic illiteracy from the Labour Party.

 

[BLOCK F]

Cap on gas prices for 2 years. He studied economics at Oxford and that's what he comes up with?

Why not cap food and rent as well, and while you're at it, plant some more of those trees that grow money.

Ha!That just about sums it up!

 

[matthew]

Just watched Ed's speech, well rehearsed with no passion.

Over an hour without notes! ****ing impressive.

 

[matthew]

Impressive speech, I'll still be voting for the Green Party but hoping Labour gets in ahead of the tories.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

As an aside, Osborne is banging on about the current upturn in the economy which is seemingly based on housing. Has the UK learnt nothing from the past 5 years? Seriously, how ****ing idiotic. Why not make some shit to sell. The UK economy is utterly ****ed and it will take a total mind reset not pissing about with rates.

My message is MAKE SOME STUFF.

We do - high end scientific stuff, car parts, drugs, military hardware.

I'm assuming you mean things like clothes, machinery etc ? In which case - it isn't going to happen while China and India can undercut our costs.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I think this is the direction the UK should go. I would vote for you (If I could)

But getting the parties to agree to it would be nigh on impossible. The only coalitions there have been in the UK since the 2nd world war have been through desperation to be in charge from the larger party.

In the very early years of Mrs Thatchers administration the Conservatives had ( neo socialist ) programmes such as YTS and YOPS that MIGHT have worked to create a new generation of entrepreneurs and forward thinking visionaries, but it all got lost in the mad dash for Privatisation and 'Big Bang', together with the battle they had against the Unions.

Now in Germany, Trade Unions are considered as VITAL stakeholders in the running of PRIVATE Companies. They work WITH Company management to ensure workers rights are respected, and that workers view themselves as much as 'owners' as the shareholders themselves. Contrast that with this country, where an employee is expected to do as you are told, or get out.

The whole problem stems back to class. Working Class vs. Ruling Class. If you look at any successful nation, everyone is treated equally. Unfortunately if you mention that to the ruling class here they accuse you of being a Communist.

Well guess what you rulers, which Country happens to be the world economic powerhouse at the moment - China. And who is in charge in China, yes you've guessed it, Communists. ( As a footnote here I mention that China is not 'Stalinist' in the same way as the old Warsaw Pact Countries and N. Korea).

If you accept that the notion of equality, and that 'the workers own the means of production' can be interpreted as a metaphor to improve employer - employee relationships to make any Company operate and perform better, then you are nearly on the path of success. Instead we seem to lurch into a devisive cycle of 'divide and rule' from our politicians, Government vs. Unions which simply won't work when you're actually supposed to be more grown up about how you make decisions. You can label it however you like, but we need input from all parts of the political spectrum to get progressively better. A continuous 5 year cycle of undoing the work of the previous 5 years is no-bloody-good. In fact it's destroying us.

The kind of rubbish Nigel Farage goes on about when he says trade embargoes won't happen. Nige, they have happened in the past, and they are just as likely to happen in the future - mainly because of Politicians such as yourself. We aren't German car makers biggest export market, China and India are. Just as Chinese and Indian exports are vital for Jaguar and Landrover's success. But we need to sell Jags and 4x4's to Germany AS WELL, just as much as they need us to buy Audis and BMW's. The Belgians need us to make their engines for the Ford cars made over in Belgium. BAe need to be able to export components to Airbus in Toulouse to build aeroplanes. Tata Steel plants in the UK need to be able to sell steel roll and strip to German Car makers etc. The whole point of the EU was to make this movement of goods easier, if we have to go back to individual trade and export agreements with every Country we will be adding beaurocracy, red tape, and overheads to our exporters.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Quite. Osborne said he'd reduce the debt by 2015. It's currently double what he inherited and we get bullshit about how he didn't realize how bad things were and telling us there is a recession.

We can all play that game - Brown was adamant he'd brought an end to boom and bust !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Out of interest did everyone vote at the last election - and will you vote at the next one?

I always vote in local and general elections. I refused to vote in the Police elections as I'm bitterly opposed to the idea of even having them.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Cap on gas prices for 2 years. He studied economics at Oxford and that's what he comes up with?

Why not cap food and rent as well, and while you're at it, plant some more of those trees that grow money.

Isn't the whole idea behind a price cap on gas and electricity prices to tell the energy cartel they won't get away with ripping off customers ? When the price cap ends in 2017 there will be a new regulator in place because Ofgem has been toothless.

 

[BLOCK F]

In the very early years of Mrs Thatchers administration the Conservatives had ( neo socialist ) programmes such as YTS and YOPS that MIGHT have worked to create a new generation of entrepreneurs and forward thinking visionaries, but it all got lost in the mad dash for Privatisation and 'Big Bang', together with the battle they had against the Unions.

Now in Germany, Trade Unions are considered as VITAL stakeholders in the running of PRIVATE Companies. They work WITH Company management to ensure workers rights are respected, and that workers view themselves as much as 'owners' as the shareholders themselves. Contrast that with this country, where an employee is expected to do as you are told, or get out.

The whole problem stems back to class. Working Class vs. Ruling Class. If you look at any successful nation, everyone is treated equally. Unfortunately if you mention that to the ruling class here they accuse you of being a Communist.

Well guess what you rulers, which Country happens to be the world economic powerhouse at the moment - China. And who is in charge in China, yes you've guessed it, Communists. ( As a footnote here I mention that China is not 'Stalinist' in the same way as the old Warsaw Pact Countries and N. Korea. In fact when Czechoslovakia and Hungary tried to change from 'Stalinism' to 'Chinese Communism' they were heavily trampled on).

If you accept that the notion of equality, and that 'the workers own the means of production' can be interpreted as a metaphor to improve employer - employee relationships to make any Company operate and perform better, then you are nearly on the path of success. Instead we seem to lurch into a devisive cycle of 'divide and rule' from our politicians, Government vs. Unions which simply won't work when you're actually supposed to be more grown up about how you make decisions. You can label it however you like, but we need input from all parts of the political spectrum to get progressively better. A continous 5 year cycle of undoing the work of the previous 5 years is no-bloody-good.

Not sure it is always divide and rule.Reckon a number of politicians and commentators seem to admire the John Lewis way of doing business and it seems to work for the company.