Can Labour actually win the next election and make a difference?

[vegster]

Customers still have an option to shop at Lidl and Aldi , with gas and electricity you're stuck with the Big 6.

The Times is reporting that Centrica have threatened to pull out of the UK if Ed gets his way, good, sod off then if all you want to do is milk the UK. For too long we have been treated as cash cows.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

i think you'll find thats already the case. its one of the most regulated industries, notwithstanding it has problems and a pretense of competition that doesnt exist (imo cant really), they are largly told what they can and cant invest in, and how much profit margin they can make. iirc SSE's proportion of profits from retail customers is only 19% (probably similar across the others), British Gas makes something like £65 profit average per customer, less than 5% margin. we see a big bill, we read about a big corporate profit number and we assume we've paid for that, energy is far more complex than that. the reality is, his bill freeze policy wont work unless he drops a subsidy, green tax or pays for it out of general taxation.

If we find out shortly that the panic over global warming is just hot air all the political parties (apart from the Greens) will revise their environmental policy and green taxes will fall down the agenda.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The Times is reporting that Centrica have threatened to pull out of the UK if Ed gets his way, good, sod off then if all you want to do is milk the UK. For too long we have been treated as cash cows.

Mr Milibland should call their bluff , a multinational company shouldn't be allowed to hold the country to ransom.

 

[vegster]

double post

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Customers still have an option to shop at Lidl and Aldi , with gas and electricity you're stuck with the Big 6.

Marks and Spencers is currently the holder of my royal warrant. It's not just Ale, it's M & S Sussex Golden Ale ( aka Hepworths Sussex Pale Ale ).

 

[BLOCK F]

The Times is reporting that Centrica have threatened to pull out of the UK if Ed gets his way, good, sod off then if all you want to do is milk the UK. For too long we have been treated as cash cows.

Milk the UK?
Just have a look at what other countries pay for their energy.
Whilst you're at it,who do you think is going to pay for all the new power stations if the power companies either 'sod off' or make insufficient profits to enable them to reinvest?

 

[Pavilionaire]

I really don't get this. We already have Ofgem, they regulate the electricity and gas markets in Britain. If the Big 6 are colluding to fix prices to rip the British people off them Ofgem should be looking into it. I'm not aware that there's any investigation underway so, presumably, Ofgem are content that the Big 6 are acting correctly.

I also would have thought that if all 6 WERE ripping off the consumer there would be a gap in the market for a "budget" supplier to gain huge market share by offering lower energy prices. It happens in other market sectors.

According to Miliband, we seem to live in a permanent state of "crisis". Following on from the "banking crisis" we now have the "energy crisis" and the "cost of living crisis". I don't know how they manage in Greece.

 

[vegster]

Milk the UK?
Just have a look at what other countries pay for their energy.
Whilst you're at it,who do you think is going to pay for all the new power stations if the power companies either 'sod off' or make insufficient profits to enable them to reinvest?[/QUOTE

Have a look at our very near neighbors GDP and you can see that they can afford to pay more for energy, whereas in the UK we are facing wage/income reductions despite the alleged recovery.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

We need as many suppliers as possible now. Remember we have to build 200,000 affordable new homes a year to keep up with the demand. Look out for any green land around you, that will shortly be going.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I really don't get this. We already have Ofgem, they regulate the electricity and gas markets in Britain. If the Big 6 are colluding to fix prices to rip the British people off them Ofgem should be looking into it. I'm not aware that there's any investigation underway so, presumably, Ofgem are content that the Big 6 are acting correctly.

I also would have thought that if all 6 WERE ripping off the consumer there would be a gap in the market for a "budget" supplier to gain huge market share by offering lower energy prices. It happens in other market sectors.

According to Miliband, we seem to live in a permanent state of "crisis". Following on from the "banking crisis" we now have the "energy crisis" and the "cost of living crisis". I don't know how they manage in Greece.

Under a Labour government Ofgem will be disbanded and replaced by a regulatory body who will actually stop the consumer from being ripped off. A "budget" supplier cannot get a look in because the Big 6 can manipulate the wholesale market.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

The only way a competitor can enter the market is by 'buying' energy from the big 6.

Do you realise how many millions of pounds and how long it takes to build a power station?

Even in the 1960's Didcot A Coal fired station cost £ 104 million ( well over half a billion £ in current prices, probably nearer a billion £ ) and took 4 years to build. Even Didcot B, the gas fired one, took 3 years to build. I cannot find any capital construction costs for that, but Gas Turbines aren't cheap.

The last Nuclear Station, Sizewell B, cost £ 2.8 billion ( 1995 costs, probably would cost double that now with the increases in construction raw material and the additional requirements for reprocessing spent fuel rods ) and took 7 years to build.

This is not like selling cans of baked beans......... Only 'big players' have the financial clout to enter the market.

These kind of investments take at least 3 years of planning and design before any groundbreaking ceremony even takes place. ( If you think the public enquiry for the Amex was protracted, Sizewell B had one lasting 340 days ).

Wind farms are being still-born because of planning regulations and nimbies, and thats just about the cheapest renewable method we have at the moment, the costs of putting these things off-shore mean they are far more expensive to construct, erect, and more costly to access and maintain. That's not even accounting for the damage that an agressive seawater environment will have, and any boat owner will tell you that maintaining a seaworthy structure means constant maintenance.

 

[Pavilionaire]

There are loads of "big players" who supply energy globally who could enter the UK market. Of the Big 6, two are German, one is French and the other Spanish. Where were they in the UK energy market 25 years ago?

 

[BLOCK F]

Milk the UK?https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5955147
Just have a look at what other countries pay for their energy.
Whilst you're at it,who do you think is going to pay for all the new power stations if the power companies either 'sod off' or make insufficient profits to enable them to reinvest?[/QUOTE

Have a look at our very near neighbors GDP and you can see that they can afford to pay more for energy, whereas in the UK we are facing wage/income reductions despite the alleged recovery.

Totally irrelevant.We are talking about the prices that are charged for electicity and gas in various countries.Even socialists cannot blame the energy companies for wage and income reductions.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Under a Labour government Ofgem will be disbanded and replaced by a regulatory body who will actually stop the consumer from being ripped off. A "budget" supplier cannot get a look in because the Big 6 can manipulate the wholesale market.

What is the point of disbanding Ofgem and then creating a new organisation to do exactly what Ofgem is supposed to do? Surely if Miliband thinks Ofgem isn't doing the job he should get them to do it properly, rather than spout about how his government would interfere with the market, disband this and set up that.

 

[BLOCK F]

There are loads of "big players" who supply energy globally who could enter the UK market. Of the Big 6, two are German, one is French and the other Spanish. Where were they in the UK energy market 25 years ago?

No-one would want to enter the UK market if faced with the possibility of a Government hellbent on pricing controls.

 

[KZNSeagull]

What is the point of disbanding Ofgem and then creating a new organisation to do exactly what Ofgem is supposed to do? Surely if Miliband thinks Ofgem isn't doing the job he should get them to do it properly, rather than spout about how his government would interfere with the market, disband this and set up that.

Precisely. Or perhaps he will set up a regulatory body to regulate the regulators. Would create a few more jobs I suppose.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

What is the point of disbanding Ofgem and then creating a new organisation to do exactly what Ofgem is supposed to do? Surely if Miliband thinks Ofgem isn't doing the job he should get them to do it properly, rather than spout about how his government would interfere with the market, disband this and set up that.

Ofgem is tainted , incoming governments like to have a "bonfire of the quangos" before replacing them. Ofcom somehow escaped last time around but might get the chop in 2015.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

There are loads of "big players" who supply energy globally who could enter the UK market. Of the Big 6, two are German, one is French and the other Spanish. Where were they in the UK energy market 25 years ago?

I'm trying to point out that if they have several billion pounds available and can go through a 4-7 year delay, all the planning hurdles and the Nimby protests before they can start to generate then it's possible they can enter the energy market here. But when you look at the timescale and the costs involved, they simply exceed the capability of Private Sector Companies comprehension in the sense of obtaining a financial return, because no-one plans ahead that far. The CEGB WAS a monopoly, and its only by being a monopoly that the financial risk and long term returns on investment can really begin to make the numbers stack up. BUT a monopoly acts directly in contravention of market forces.

So you end up with nobody prepared to break the vicious circle. It's the same reason we haven't seen any more M6 toll style motorways constructed. The fact is that if the private sector don't see a profit, they won't invest, and if you offer them a monopoly to get that profit, you don't get competition.

It takes Nation State sized economics and capability to break that vicious circle, and it's why the Conservatives realised that keeping Network Rail in public ownership is essential to the development of the railways. Some things are too big, and too important, to leave to the private sector.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Like everyone....I don't like paying too much...but it is supply and demand....investment .....we have millions of tons of shale gas....yet the so called protesters want to stop it being used...we have solar power and wind farms....personally I would like wave power and shale gas to be used....like if Albion get promoted it would have to be paid for by higher prices.....if you want fuel,it has to be paid for.
We are all at the mercy of foreign ownership and if ever Russia cut the the supplies......it wouldn't be last one out turn off the lights cos' there will not be any lights.

 

[Norman Potting]

Marks and Spencers is currently the holder of my royal warrant. It's not just Ale, it's M & S Sussex Golden Ale ( aka Hepworths Sussex Pale Ale ).

Waitrose do Hepworths as well. Nowt to do with this thread but thought I would mention it.