[Politics] Brexit

[Blue3]

Settled in TV on watching the withdrawal agreement debate on the Concervative side it has the feel of a public job interview while for the rest of the house it's very somber

 

[Is it PotG?]

Do you feel represented?

Well my MP is a remainer and I expressed my displeasure quite directly.

Your alternative?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Well my MP is a remainer and I expressed my displeasure quite directly.

Is your ward a remain or leave area? What was the win/lose percentage for leave for example?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Is your ward a remain or leave area? What was the win/lose percentage for leave for example?

Absolutely no idea. Not too fussed either.

What others vote is up to them.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Absolutely no idea. Not too fussed either.

Ok that's fair enough, but surely if the MP is voting on behalf of their constituency they should be voting for the larger percentage of votes for or against, surely that is their duty? If they don't then they are not doing their job? They are voting for their own self fulfilment and ignoring those that vote for them?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Another breezy, good humoured dismissal.... welcome back!
I suspect though that there may be more profound reasons...... concern over job loss from looming Brexit maybe?
Are you retired, in secure employment or is your job security under threat?

Not been anywhere

As far as jobs are concerned, there will be newly created and loss of jobs, that's what happens the country goes through highs and lows, so you adapt, you have to grow some legs and bounce back to safety or leap into the future regardless.

Have some belief and you can turn into a prince one day.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Ok that's fair enough, but surely if the MP is voting on behalf of their constituency they should be voting for the larger percentage of votes for or against, surely that is their duty? If they don't then they are not doing their job? They are voting for their own self fulfilment and ignoring those that vote for them?

But May was a stayer, and has had to put some sort (vague representation) of a leg-it deal for her people having spoken.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

But May was a stayer, and has had to put some sort (vague representation) of a leg-it deal for her people.

Yes, I think you're talking national as opposed to local politics? I am saying that every MP should vote on behalf of their ward and the majority consensus view and not for their own selfish ideals. It makes a mockery of democracy if they are voting for themselves. This is a vote to leave, not a vote for a deal, it was never a vote for a deal. They are not voting on behalf of their constituents.

 

[Baker lite]

Just spent My lunch hour with the wonderful people from Leave means leave by Parliament square,all very good natured, nice bit of banter with the Remain crowd, some of the more bitter remainiacs were starting to turn a bit waspy but all in all very good spirits throughout, also nice to see so many younger members of the electorate on both sides.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

That's bullshit.

People in that 16-29 bracket aren't empty shells in the rough shape of a human being, blindly bumbling through existence until they hit some magic number in age whereby they're suddenly able to have an informed opinion on things.

Are you a tadpole

Tadpole with legs

Not sure how old you are but tell me can you really say each year you know less about life?

 

[Is it PotG?]

I am saying that every MP should vote on behalf of their ward and the majority consensus view and not for their own selfish ideals. It makes a mockery of democracy if they are voting for themselves. This is a vote to leave, not a vote for a deal, it was never a vote for a deal. They are not voting on behalf of their constituents.

Sounds about right. Do we know how the vote would go should that be the case (I know it won't happen but interesting to know)?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Take off your blinkers. If Brexit happens the Americans are queuing up to take over 'outsourcing' the NHS.

I don't doubt teh Americans are keen to get involved in outsourcing deals with the NHS that they are prevented from obtaining now and I don't agree that they should be allowed.

But you're just deflecting from the statements you and Clamp made that the NHS is being privatised. As yet neither of you have provided a single example of something in the NHS that has been privatised that meets the definition of privatisation ..... instead you just decide to ignore the real differences between the two process. I suggest you google the differences between the two processes ..... or come up with real examples.

 

[Simster]

Well they're not going to. The remainers will not agree to anything, hoping to scupper the whole deal after agreeing to honour the referendum.

I'm not sure that's fair. I'm sure there are some remainer MPs who would vote for a deal that looks like it might be something that was voted for, but you really can't blame them (or anyone else for that matter) if the government decide they are going to negotiate a deal without any cross party agreement or input, and that deal turns out to be utter shithouse.

This whole thing was poorly thought through from the start, and there are so many ways the government could have helped themselves.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Sounds about right. Do we know how the vote would go should that be the case (I know it won't happen but interesting to know)?

As it was a referendum, a vote without barriers I'm personally not sure but every ward knows the percentages for and against, it was all recorded. It could well be that ward by ward Remain comes out top, I don't know myself but it is still the duty of an MP to represent it's constituent and if they don't they quite simply are not carrying out their duty of office.

 

[fanseagull]

Not been anywhere

As far as jobs are concerned, there will be newly created and loss of jobs, that's what happens the country goes through highs and lows, so you adapt, you have to grow some legs and bounce back to safety or leap into the future regardless.

Have some belief and you can turn into a prince one day.

Oh... it's just that I think you indicated you were going off the thread to celebrate Christmas..... and I was telling you that I have some young friends who are almost certain to be laid off in 2019 as a result of all this.
I did do what you suggested and repeated your reassurance that there would be more job opportunities. Perhaps predictably they were more worried about what is going to happen to them in the immediate future (you know, paying rent etc). They asked if the 'source of the reassurance' was safe from the personal privations that they were expecting. I said I had asked you but hadn't heard back yet...........
Maybe it's all a lack of faith on their part?

 

[Baldseagull]

Mainly youngsters voted remain, why?

Inexperience in life, when they get into their mid 30s they may just realise that life experience really helps in such a key matter.

Can anyone really say they were wiser between the ages of 18-24 that they are now?

They need to serve an apprenticeship in life before they can vote in a landmark referendum IMO, sounds harsh I know, but true.

If you stick a tadpole in boiling hot water he is clueless and dies, if you stick a frog in hot water he jumps.

I think most of them are less scared of Muslims, because they went to school with some, and don't just read about them in the Daily Mail and Express. I think they also have more contact via the internet and social media with people around the world and do not feel quite so different to other people just because they live under a different Government.

We all did more daft things when we were 18-24, this is because the frontal cortex is not fully developed till we reach about 25, this is an area of your brain which controls impulsiveness, but this does not mean you cannot make sensible decisions, it means that you are more likely to throw a punch when you are angry, or sleep with someone you probably shouldn't, i.e. be more impulsive.
I think most of us had a sharper mind at 18-24 than we have now, capable of quicker learning and understanding and not indoctrinated by decades of lies in the press.
There are plenty of adults who have served their life apprenticeship with really bad training providers such as Murdoch and Dacre, and not had enough exposure to good working practises such as critical thinking.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well they're not going to. The remainers will not agree to anything, hoping to scupper the whole deal after agreeing to honour the referendum.

Why are you only focused on 'Remainers'? There are many pro-leave factions also intent on voting down this (and any other) deal.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Ben Bradshaw, Labour

Let's test parliaments interest in another general election

Why, at no point do they refer to the people that vote and only think about themselves? Do they not think there is a vast sway of the people on the street that are sick of politics? Sick of votes, elections, referendums, and sick of politicians acting like 10 year olds?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The difference being Article 50 has a two year time limit, in which time this government has not been able to negotiate a withdrawal that Parliament can agree on. If the governments plan gets voted down the electorate should be given options.

IMO

That has nothing to do with the 16 years olds in 2016.

The 20 somethings that are moaning now could of made a difference if they got up and voted.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Why are you only focused on 'Remainers'? There are many pro-leave factions also intent on voting down this (and any other) deal.

As someone else mentioned, whilst the vote was Stay/Go it is a highly complex deal. Nobody will be pleased with everything, and so a compromise is probably the only way forward. Harders get a soft one, stayers get a soft one too.

Not what was planned, but unless we go No Deal (Parliament said 'sod that') then we must go Supertramp and Give a Little Bit.

That's Life.

Even odd 'uns like Gove seem to have accepted that they have to cede ground.