[Politics] Brexit

[BBassic]

Mainly youngsters voted remain, why?

Inexperience in life, when they get into their mid 30s they may just realise that life experience really helps in such a key matter.

Can anyone really say they were wiser between the ages of 18-24 that they are now?

They need to serve an apprenticeship in life before they can vote in a landmark referendum IMO, sounds harsh I know, but true.

If you stick a tadpole in boiling hot water he is clueless and dies, if you stick a frog in hot water he jumps.

That's bullshit.

People in that 16-29 bracket aren't empty shells in the rough shape of a human being, blindly bumbling through existence until they hit some magic number in age whereby they're suddenly able to have an informed opinion on things.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Are they aware of the facts, for both sides?

What is the relevance of your question?

Was the Yorkshireman who admitted he voted Leave to 'get our country back' but is now fuming after discovering that leaving affects his plans to retire to Spain, "aware of the facts, for both sides"?

Are you suggesting that those who voted in the godforsaken referendum actually WERE well-informed?

 

[Is it PotG?]

What is the relevance of your question?

Was the Yorkshireman who admitted he voted Leave to 'get our country back' but is now fuming after discovering that leaving affects his plans to retire to Spain, "aware of the facts, for both sides"?

Are you suggesting that those who voted in the godforsaken referendum actually WERE well-informed?

Sorry, my points were not relevant.

 

[neilbard]

Imagine all the 16 year olds who couln't vote in the referendum who are now of voting age, but they won't get a say even though we have not reached a decision on how we are leaving the EU. It's an absolute shitter for them.

I wasn't old enough to vote in 72'

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Really ? Which parts have been sold off to private companies then ? Too many people confused the words 'privatisation' and 'outsourcing'. The former means selling the service off to private ownership - Royal Mail, Gas, Electric, BT are good examples. The latter means getting services run by a contractor but still owned by the public body. Mrs W and my Grandmother are both people that have benefited from the NHS outsourcing to ensure a timely treatment. There was still zero cost to either of them ( past the taxes they pay ) and they were treated faster than if they had had to wait for the NHS to carry out the treatment.

I'm not aware any single part of the NHS has been sold - unless of course either yourself or [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] want to provide some evidence that it really has happened ?

The Virgin example TB has posted ISN'T privatisation - it was outsourcing. Now the discussion around if outsourcing is money well spent is an entirely different argument but it sure as hell isn't privatisation.

I've already given an example with Coperforma. Outsourcing is privatisation by stealth. It's just a posh name for it.

The Probation Service is going to be privatised or outsourced.

Now think of Carillion and the mess that's created.

 

[Is it PotG?]

What is the relevance of your question?

Was the Yorkshireman who admitted he voted Leave to 'get our country back' but is now fuming after discovering that leaving affects his plans to retire to Spain, "aware of the facts, for both sides"?

Are you suggesting that those who voted in the godforsaken referendum actually WERE well-informed?

One point does make me smile though. I know two black, immigrant medical professionals who are strongly, and even more so in light of recent events, Leave. These, not necessarily yours above, stereotypes of leavers being uneducated, somewhat racist and small minded do fit in with the approach of some wishing to pour scorn on a 52/48 win.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I wasn't old enough to vote in 72'

You didn't lose any freedoms in '72 though.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

One point does make me smile though. I know two black, immigrant medical professionals who are strongly, and even more so in light of recent events, Leave. These, not necessarily yours above, stereotypes of leavers being uneducated, somewhat racist and small minded do fit in with the approach of some wishing to pour scorn on a 52/48 win.

Are you suggesting that black people are incapable of being racist / xenophobic?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Are you suggesting that black people are incapable of being racist / xenophobic?

Nope. I stated a fact, your interpretation is down to you.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Nope. I stated a fact, your interpretation is down to you.

Obviously.

 

[neilbard]

You didn't lose any freedoms in '72 though.

I did, I wasn't allowed to stay up and watch MOTD on numerous occasions.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've already given an example with Coperforma. Outsourcing is privatisation by stealth. It's just a posh name for it.

The Probation Service is going to be privatised or outsourced.

Now think of Carillion and the mess that's created.

Coperforma WAS outsourcing and it was very badly managed by the NHS Trust. That's why they were able to bring it back in house after it failed. If it had been privatised they couldn't have done that.

You outsource the servicing of your car ( well I assume you don't do it yourself ). You never lose your ownership of your car, you decide who you're going to outsource to and if they don't meet your expectations you either don't pay them, get a discount or/and don't use them again.

Now you can make up that outsourcing is just a 'posh' word for privatisation but that is neither the business or the dictionary definition.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Coperforma WAS outsourcing and it was very badly managed by the NHS Trust. That's why they were able to bring it back in house after it failed. If it had been privatised they couldn't have done that.

You outsource the servicing of your car ( well I assume you don't do it yourself ). You never lose your ownership of your car, you decide who you're going to outsource to and if they don't meet your expectations you either don't pay them, get a discount or/and don't use them again.

Now you can make up that outsourcing is just a 'posh' word for privatisation but that is neither the business or the dictionary definition.

Take off your blinkers. If Brexit happens the Americans are queuing up to take over 'outsourcing' the NHS.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I’m remain, but this is massively flawed

When does it stop?

They were not old enough to vote and it’s a shame for them, but that’s the current rules.

The difference being Article 50 has a two year time limit, in which time this government has not been able to negotiate a withdrawal that Parliament can agree on. If the governments plan gets voted down the electorate should be given options.

IMO

 

[Is it PotG?]

The difference being Article 50 has a two year time limit, in which time this government has not been able to negotiate a withdrawal that Parliament can agree on.

Well they're not going to. The remainers will not agree to anything, hoping to scupper the whole deal after agreeing to honour the referendum.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Well they're not going to. The remainers will not agree to anything, hoping to scupper the whole deal after agreeing to honour the referendum.

Since when have MPs represented the people that vote for them?

 

[A1X]

One for the people who say "No Deal is fine because we voted to Leave, not for a deal" from a former Vote Leave staffer

[TWEET]1085154715015569408[/TWEET]

 

[Baldseagull]

Not if it was provided using tax/NI, the services and assets are still under the ownership of the NHS and services are still free at the point of delivery - no.

I think that would be a National Insurance scheme as is seen elsewhere in the world, it is not the same as a National Health Service.
There are potential problems with profit seeking health care providers.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Since when have MPs represented the people that vote for them?

Is that not why we vote? I don't vote for 'A' and expect 'B' to represent me.

I know, let's bin this mad, democratic voting nonsense and go a bit wild.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Is that not why we vote? I don't vote for 'A' and expect 'B' to represent me.

Do you feel represented?