[Politics] Brexit

[BBassic]

Are you a tadpole

Tadpole with legs

Not sure how old you are but tell me can you really say each year you know less about life?

I'm 33. I absolutely know more than I did when I was 25. But I wasn't some vacuous shell either. I had opinions on issues, I read manifestos and voted for political parties that represented my beliefs and interests. If I've understood you correctly you're going for the "we're older so we know best" argument which is, again, bullshit.

 

[Baldseagull]

No, that's not the point I was making.

If you think that we have an EU Commission today which you agree with, and we have a Government today that you hate, that may be true.

Tomorrow we may have your ideal UK Government (let's say a liberal, left leaning Government), with policies of which you approve. & Tomorrow we may have a European Commission comprised of "swivel eyed loons" (let's say an ultra Conservative, right wing Commission), with policies you despise.

Your view that the EU Commission is on "your side" and the UK Government is not on your side is short sighted, it's based on current and inherently temporary conditions. But our ability (or not) to change law makers (be they good or bad) is permanent.

If we stay in the EU then, today, the Conservative government you hate will be disempowered and will have their hands tied, and the EU Commission will be the ultimate law maker - a state of affairs which might seem appealing - today. But tomorrow the Liberal government which you will want empowered won't be, and the EU Commission which you hate will be the ultimate law maker. A state of affairs from which there will be no escape.

I'm not saying that you should be for the principle of UK democracy because you should be in favor of today's government. I'm saying that you should be for it because you should be in favor of the principle of self government itself. That is ultimately what this is about.

The areas of law making are limited and the reason they have them is to create a level playing field for the members to conduct business on. It has limited areas of competency, the reason you will struggle to name a law you don't like that the EU has forced on us, is they are mostly inconsequential to our day to day freedoms, and actually do a lot to protect us. You say it is a principle, that you must be able to choose your representation in a government, but I actually have a representative that I voted for in the European Parliament and I never have had in a UK government.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Why are you only focused on 'Remainers'? There are many pro-leave factions also intent on voting down this (and any other) deal.

Because over 70% of Mp's are 'Remainers' ? It's true most Brexiteer Mp's are intent on voting down this particular deal but not any deal.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Coperforma took over the hospital transport patient service.
https://www.eastbournehailshamandse...atient-transport-service-update/#.XD3Gblz7QdU

And was then wound up as it was useless

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-42399635


Wake up [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION].

I have not got time to read all that.

But there may be bits that run that are more private, however, my stance has always been keeping the NHS as it is unless it doesn't perform.

Now, apparently, I need to go back to sleep.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because over 70% of Mp's are 'Remainers' ? It's true most Brexiteer Mp's are intent on voting down this particular deal but not any deal.

The Brexiteer MPs that were put in charge of negotiating the deal you mean?

 

[CHAPPERS]

That has nothing to do with the 16 years olds in 2016.

The 20 somethings that are moaning now could of made a difference if they got up and voted.

I think a now 18 year old would disagree with you. If we had left immediately in 2016 it would be different but we didn't and we still don't know how we will.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I have not got time to read all that.

But there may be bits that run that are more private, however, my stance has always been keeping the NHS as it is unless it doesn't perform.

Now, apparently, I need to go back to sleep.

I agree with you about keep the NHS unless it doesn't perform. The NHS does need overhauling and sorting out but not by privatising it.

What I have seen is that lack of investment by the Tories has allowed sections of it, to not perform, so the politicians can say, 'Oh it isn't performing so let's find a private company that can do better'.

 

[astralavi]

https://youtu.be/XiWhq-8IZX8

 

[Is it PotG?]

https://youtu.be/XiWhq-8IZX8

Two eejuts. Can't listen to either of them.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The Brexiteer MPs that were put in charge of negotiating the deal you mean?

The only people truly 'in charge' of negotiating the deal were Theresa May and perhaps Olly Robbins ...

 

[Sussex Nomad]

What I have seen is that lack of investment by the Tories has allowed sections of it, to not perform, so the politicians can say, 'Oh it isn't performing so let's find a private company that can do better'.

You see, these are the kind of throwaway comments that make me want to tear my hair out. Was the NHS all rosy under Labour? NO! This same old argument can be used time and time and time again... ad infinitum. It's the Tories, it's Labour, it's all there faults. They wheel out a new Government that changes the previous Govts policies and when they lose an election the others change it again. I find it incredulous how the voting public get dragged into this never ending pantomime.What part of politicians screw the country do people not get?

 

[Baldseagull]

You see, these are the kind of throwaway comments that make me want to tear my hair out. Was the NHS all rosy under Labour? NO! This same old argument can be used time and time and time again... ad infinitum. It's the Tories, it's Labour, it's all there faults. They wheel out a new Government that changes the previous Govts policies and when they lose an election the others change it again. I find it incredulous how the voting public get dragged into this never ending pantomime.What part of politicians screw the country do people not get?

Whilst they all cock up the NHS, only Tories make money from the cock up. New Labour were Tories.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Whilst they all cock up the NHS, only Tories make money from the cock up. New Labour were Tories.

Ah right, so Labour were also wrong but just call them Tories. Couldn't make it up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Ah right, so Labour were also wrong but just call them Tories. Couldn't make it up.

It was the Tories under Major who introduced PFI, but expanded by Labour. Disastrous policy by both of them.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Disastrous policy by both of them.

Again, as I have already said to you on another subject, this is what I'm getting at.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I think most of them are less scared of Muslims, because they went to school with some, and don't just read about them in the Daily Mail and Express. I think they also have more contact via the internet and social media with people around the world and do not feel quite so different to other people just because they live under a different Government.

We all did more daft things when we were 18-24, this is because the frontal cortex is not fully developed till we reach about 25, this is an area of your brain which controls impulsiveness, but this does not mean you cannot make sensible decisions, it means that you are more likely to throw a punch when you are angry, or sleep with someone you probably shouldn't, i.e. be more impulsive.
I think most of us had a sharper mind at 18-24 than we have now, capable of quicker learning and understanding and not indoctrinated by decades of lies in the press.
There are plenty of adults who have served their life apprenticeship with really bad training providers such as Murdoch and Dacre, and not had enough exposure to good working practises such as critical thinking.

My cortex was noticeably fully developed the day I didn't sleep with my best man girlfriend, even though she was howling like a wolf.

For the record, I never read newspapers, all my opinions are based on real life.

Oh... it's just that I think you indicated you were going off the thread to celebrate Christmas..... and I was telling you that I have some young friends who are almost certain to be laid off in 2019 as a result of all this.
I did do what you suggested and repeated your reassurance that there would be more job opportunities. Perhaps predictably they were more worried about what is going to happen to them in the immediate future (you know, paying rent etc). They asked if the 'source of the reassurance' was safe from the personal privations that they were expecting. I said I had asked you but hadn't heard back yet...........
Maybe it's all a lack of faith on their part?

Ahh, I remember now, I hope you told your friends, I will be bringing them gold frankincense and myrrh.

Did you also tell them of the many wars and how people lost family, friends and possessions such as iPhones and Amazon Echo's?

I am sure if the going get's tough they will become stronger and better people, snowflakes can turn into big tough Icebergs. **disclaimer unless global warming happens first** ahh we are all going to die.

I hope I have reassured you and your mates, please enter into my faith and follow the leader..................on Mouldydoestwatter.com

I'm 33. I absolutely know more than I did when I was 25. But I wasn't some vacuous shell either. I had opinions on issues, I read manifestos and voted for political parties that represented my beliefs and interests. If I've understood you correctly you're going for the "we're older so we know best" argument which is, again, bullshit.

Never said anyone was, I am just saying, many think they know it all under 24, but in fact, they have been to Uni for most of those years and have very little real-life experience.

I have never been of the notion I know considerably more than thou because I am considerably older than thou.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I agree with you about keep the NHS unless it doesn't perform. The NHS does need overhauling and sorting out but not by privatising it.

What I have seen is that lack of investment by the Tories has allowed sections of it, to not perform, so the politicians can say, 'Oh it isn't performing so let's find a private company that can do better'.

You say the lack of investment by the Tories, but Labour have consistently wasted money within the NHS, so maybe the Tories have stress tested some areas, it doesn't mean that they will abandon them though.

 

[Baldseagull]

Ah right, so Labour were also wrong but just call them Tories. Couldn't make it up.

Yes, they were very conservative whilst in power don't you think? PFI contracts abounded under them.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Yes, they were very conservative whilst in power don't you think? PFI contracts abounded under them.

So, just call Labour Tories and blame them for being the latter... still couldn't make it up.

 

[cunning fergus]

I think most of them are less scared of Muslims, because they went to school with some, and don't just read about them in the Daily Mail and Express. I think they also have more contact via the internet and social media with people around the world and do not feel quite so different to other people just because they live under a different Government.

We all did more daft things when we were 18-24, this is because the frontal cortex is not fully developed till we reach about 25, this is an area of your brain which controls impulsiveness, but this does not mean you cannot make sensible decisions, it means that you are more likely to throw a punch when you are angry, or sleep with someone you probably shouldn't, i.e. be more impulsive.
I think most of us had a sharper mind at 18-24 than we have now, capable of quicker learning and understanding and not indoctrinated by decades of lies in the press.
There are plenty of adults who have served their life apprenticeship with really bad training providers such as Murdoch and Dacre, and not had enough exposure to good working practises such as critical thinking.

Do you think young people in places like Rochdale and Rotherham are feeling more positive about Muslims than their parents? I think your point makes sense in places like Richmond and Rugby, but then its only been working class kids that have been affected by grooming gangs (another 55 arrested yesterday) and they voted Brexit in place like Rochdale and Rotherham (to bring it back to the subject of the thread).