Are we still a European force?

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd say German's aren't usually arrogant, whereas the French are. I am genuinely surprised to hear it was a German polician uttering those disrespectful comments.

I think he/she was exasperated with the continual British position on Europe.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We dont just roll over , as has been proved, most of the large european countries have so called "redline" policies, ours was the tobin tax , which totally and utterly wrecked nordic equity trading so much so that even when the tax was repealed , the market stayed in london and has never moved back, france has the common agricultural policy, like it or not, the city is a huge contributor to our gdp, and a transaction tax would have a severely negative effect on that .

Was the Nordic Tobin tax just a few selected countries or part of a wide spread international programme? Obviously it's the former, which is why it did not work. It's pretty obvious it has to be rolled out across across more than just a few countries.

 

[Chicken Run]

At what point do you direct an unwillingness at Merkel and Sarkozy for not offering some understanding to our own stance, after all they have presided over an economic catastrophe, whilst we opted not to be part of their failed project.

They totally ignored economic fault lines, whilst preening themselves and expanding their Euro dream.

I just wish you too, would hold them to account a little more harshly, before lambasting our own position here.

He will never hold them to account! The enemy of his enemy is his friend. Could you imagine him lambasting Brown in the same circumstances. he talks of CMD's lack of negotiating skills, well I wouldnt want the wonderfuly educated intelegenta that is Herr Tummy rumbler batting for my team.

 

[sten_super]

Was the Nordic Tobin tax just a few selected countries or part of a wide spread international programme? Obviously it's the former, which is why it did not work. It's pretty obvious it has to be rolled out across across more than just a few countries.

Except that this Tobin tax is not part of a 'wide spread international programme either'. It's an EU measure. And your previous posts talk about the UK dominating EU finance. You can't say that on the one hand we might lose loads of EU financial business by not being central to the EU, but ignore that we are when you look at the ramifications of bringing in the tax.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He will never hold them to account! The enemy of his enemy is his friend. Could you imagine him lambasting Brown in the same circumstances. he talks of CMD's lack of negotiating skills, well I wouldnt want the wonderfuly educated intelegenta that is Herr Tummy rumbler batting for my team.

I think Brown would have got something. European leaders used to listen to him, not roll their eyes.

 

[Simster]

I think he/she was exasperated with the continual British position on Europe.

I'm exasperated by the fact we pay through the nose for our food thanks to the CAP. For 30 years.

Isn't it about time we were obnoxious towards these countries negotiating positions?

 

[Chicken Run]

I think Brown would have got something. European leaders used to listen to him, not roll their eyes.

But the British Public did roll their eyes at him and promptley fired him at the first opportunity!

 

[User removed 4]

Of course I cannot say for sure, as I have no idea what future EU deals between the 26 will be struck but I'm sure they will look after themselves.....and be favourable to route finances through them instead of a little island cut off from the real business.

According to today's press Deutsche Bank is the largest single bank employer in the city. Other eurozone nations also have very significant presence. I think this might change. Especially if future agreements within the new EU make it attractive to route transactions elsewhere. The big economies also see the UK as a european gateway due to our power and influence in Europe; will they now? If you want to go to the heart of Europe I'd say Frankfurt will be a better future option.

In other words you dont really know do you ? I havent got a clue about what you do for a living, and you really havent got a clue about what the city does, or how and why it does it, just as an aside why do you refer to what is presumably your country of birth in such sneering terms , such as " a little island cut off from the real business " , what has made you such a self hater ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm exasperated by the fact we pay through the nose for our food thanks to the CAP. For 30 years.

Which supermarket do you use?

 

[User removed 4]

Was the Nordic Tobin tax just a few selected countries or part of a wide spread international programme? Obviously it's the former, which is why it did not work. It's pretty obvious it has to be rolled out across across more than just a few countries.

It was Sweden, which was why all the trading migrated here,and why if there is a transaction tax rolled out across the EU all the trading will migrate to switzerland , new york and singapore.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Are we still a European force? Yes, of course.

But the Euro is not our currency, it's theirs. They decided to let in countries not fit to join whilst pushing this federalist agenda. It's risk and reward - we lose out when the Euro is strong, so when the Euro is f***ed it's illogical for the UK to bail it out, otherwise we suffer the consequences of risk in the bad times without getting the benefits of reward in the good times.

And I see little point in beating Cameron up over the recent summit. This debacle goes way back to De Gaulle's opposition to our joining the EEC. He's merely a player in a drama that's been running for 40 years.

Things need to be brought into perspective - we still have influence with the US, Commonwealth and one of the main financial markets in the world. Italy has a fleet of ice cream vans, France has a lot of Greek debt.

 

[User removed 4]

Are we still a European force? Yes, of course.

But the Euro is not our currency, it's theirs. They decided to let in countries not fit to join whilst pushing this federalist agenda. It's risk and reward - we lose out when the Euro is strong, so when the Euro is f***ed it's illogical for the UK to bail it out, otherwise we suffer the consequences of risk in the bad times without getting the benefits of reward in the good times.

And I see little point in beating Cameron up over the recent summit. This debacle goes way back to De Gaulle's opposition to our joining the EEC. He's merely a player in a drama that's been running for 40 years.

Things need to be brought into perspective - we still have influence with the US, Commonwealth and one of the main financial markets in the world. Italy has a fleet of ice cream vans, France has a lot of Greek debt.

Sterling competes with the Euro

At the moment we are THE main financial market in the world, we overtook New York when the US introduced the restrictive Sarbanes-Oxley accounting standards.

 

[kano]

I think Brown would have got something. European leaders used to listen to him, not roll their eyes.

This seems to be the crux of your argument, basically you think cameron should have somehow 'boxed clever' and made some allies in the halls of the EU. Then once everyone was impressed with his boxing and liked him more he could just ask for what we wanted and he would have got it. WAKE UP!

I am a labour voter and even i realize you are deluded if you think there were more options available to us than take it or leave it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In other words you dont really know do you ? I havent got a clue about what you do for a living, and you really havent got a clue about what the city does, or how and why it does it, just as an aside why do you refer to what is presumably your country of birth in such sneering terms , such as " a little island cut off from the real business " , what has made you such a self hater ?

The reason I said I think this might change is that I cannot be 100% sure. Just like you cannot be. It's just a hunch that the new EU might strike deals to suit themselves.

Self hater? I can assure you I do not hate myself. I just find my nation tedious at times. I like people to walk the talk. England rarely does.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This seems to be the crux of your argument, basically you think cameron should have somehow 'boxed clever' and made some allies in the halls of the EU. Then once everyone was impressed with his boxing and liked him more he could just ask for what we wanted and he would have got it. WAKE UP!

I am a labour voter and even i realize you are deluded if you think there were more options available to us than take it or leave it.

No. Box clever and get some safe guards or concessions. A big fat zero is very poor form. Given he didn't even try and was on the first plane home says it all.

Edit: I have just read the news and Cameron is quoted as saying he will continue to seek safe guards for the city. So, by his own admission he is still lacking in what he wanted to achieve.

 

[Simster]

In other words you dont really know do you ? I havent got a clue about what you do for a living, and you really havent got a clue about what the city does, or how and why it does it, just as an aside why do you refer to what is presumably your country of birth in such sneering terms , such as " a little island cut off from the real business " , what has made you such a self hater ?

I think there is a perception from Euro-centric Brits that we are thought of as an irritant with ideas way above it's station. It's probably true to some degree, however reading some of HT's posts, you'd think this was a major source embarassment, not a minor one.

I wonder whether Italian liberals show the same self-loathing because of Berlosconi (a more corrupt, rude and contemptable politician you couldn't wish to meet) or French liberals after they elected a corrupt and useless cretin like Jacques Chirac - so embarrassing and shithouse that he was only elected to keep a FASCIST out of power?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am a labour voter and even i realize you are deluded if you think there were more options available to us than take it or leave it.

As the 3rd biggest euro economy do you not think its a sad affair that we had so little clout that all we had was a take it or leave it?

Why did we let ourselves get into this position? Every other leader both Lab and Con has come back from Brussells with something. This is the first time we have got nothing.

 

[kano]

No. Box clever and get some safe guards or concessions. A big fat zero is very poor form. Given he didn't even try and was on the first plane home says it all.

Ok and what if, despite all the clever boxing, there was a total unwillingness to discuss safe guards or concessions?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It was Sweden, which was why all the trading migrated here,and why if there is a transaction tax rolled out across the EU all the trading will migrate to switzerland , new york and singapore.

The International Monetary Fund, the European Commission and the Gates Foundation have all found that unilateral transaction taxes are feasible. Ironically, the best evidence for this can be found in the UK, where a Stamp Duty of 0.5% on transactions from anywhere in the world in UK shares raises £3bn per year.

Understandably, bankers peddle the story that Armageddon would strike if you dare raise taxes in the financial sector by a smidgen.

In reality a 0.1% tax on transactions involving shares and bonds (or 0.01% on derivatives) doesn't figure highly in the decision-making of long-term investors. Despite introducing new FTTs, Brazil is still struggling to calm overseas investor enthusiasm.

Some of the world's fastest growing financial centres - Hong Kong, Mumbai, Seoul, Johannesburg and Tapei - all have FTTs.

 

[User removed 4]

As the 3rd biggest euro economy do you not think its a sad affair that we had so little clout that all we had was a take it or leave it?

Why did we let ourselves get into this position? Every other leader both Lab and Con has come back from Brussells with something. This is the first time we have got nothing.

These are totally unprecedented times , with totally different problems being dealt with.