Are we still a European force?

[Pavilionaire]

France and Germany. A love-hate relationship if ever there was one and NOT a sound axis on which to build a stable Europe. Historically, they either get carried away and push the European union idea too far too fast or else go to war.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think there is a perception from Euro-centric Brits that we are thought of as an irritant with ideas way above it's station. It's probably true to some degree, however reading some of HT's posts, you'd think this was a major source embarassment, not a minor one.

To me it is a major source of embarrassment. I truly am embarrassed by the way we conduct ourselves on the continent. And having to continually explain things to my foreign friends is a pain. On a day to day domestic basis they are flumoxed as to why we make life so bloody hard for ourselves, at a political level they are plain bored BUT they find our belief in the football team amusing.

 

[User removed 4]

The International Monetary Fund, the European Commission and the Gates Foundation have all found that unilateral transaction taxes are feasible. Ironically, the best evidence for this can be found in the UK, where a Stamp Duty of 0.5% on transactions from anywhere in the world in UK shares raises £3bn per year.

Understandably, bankers peddle the story that Armageddon would strike if you dare raise taxes in the financial sector by a smidgen.

In reality a 0.1% tax on transactions involving shares and bonds (or 0.01% on derivatives) doesn't figure highly in the decision-making of long-term investors. Despite introducing new FTTs, Brazil is still struggling to calm overseas investor enthusiasm.

Some of the world's fastest growing financial centres - Hong Kong, Mumbai, Seoul, Johannesburg and Tapei - all have FTTs.

This is what the IMF said " It does not appear well suited to the specific purposes set out in the mandate from the G-20 leaders." However, it conceded that "The FTT should not be dismissed on grounds of administrative practicality". Like the rest of your post, rubbish . Apart from hong Kong , all the other centres you mentioned are domestic markets, unlike London, and i'm struggling to find any evidence of a FTT in hong kong, perhaps you'd be kind enough to show me where I can find some ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

These are totally unprecedented times , with totally different problems being dealt with.

There have been some big-ticket items in the past Bushy.

Besides, this is a crap argument. A loser's speech if you will.

 

[User removed 4]

To me it is a major source of embarrassment. I truly am embarrassed by the way we conduct ourselves on the continent. And having to continually explain things to my foreign friends is a pain. On a day to day domestic basis they are flumoxed as to why we make life so bloody hard for ourselves, at a political level they are plain bored BUT they find our belief in the football team amusing.

To put it crudely, f*** your foreign friends, I really couldnt give a monkeys how "flummoxed" they get.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Just to throw some fuel on this burning debate.....

I can't see the other 26 nations wanting to ditch the EU - they/we have too much to lose in future years. They may ditch the Euro (but I doubt they ever completely would) - The EU is the only viable way of trading with the the biggest, richest nations when you have the economy and resources most european nations have.

The dollar is losing its place the worlds reserve currency - its going to be overtaken by the Renminbi, if Europe got its act together the Euro could be the second.

You have to think about the new world order for trade

CHINA, INDIA, USA, BRASIL, etc etc

Europe as one trading block fits in quite high in the top pecking order - what number does a lone country on the outskirts of Europe come in at?

We don't have any oil, coal or steel industries. We wrecked our manufacturing industries years ago so that only leaves the Sq mile!

Its not going to take much to move those finance services to Paris, Frankfurt or anywhere else in Europe is it. That won't leave us much to trade with will it?

 

[User removed 4]

There have been some big-ticket items in the past Bushy.

Besides, this is a crap argument. A loser's speech if you will.

There has been nothing whatsoever as serious as this in the entire lifetime of the european union, would you care to name some of these "big ticket" events that remotely match up to what we are facing at present ?

 

[User removed 4]

Just to throw some fuel on this burning debate.....

I can't see the other 26 nations wanting to ditch the EU - they/we have too much to lose in future years. They may ditch the Euro (but I doubt they ever completely would) - The EU is the only viable way of trading with the the biggest, richest nations when you have the economy and resources most european nations have.

The dollar is losing its place the worlds reserve currency - its going to be overtaken by the Renminbi, if Europe got its act together the Euro could be the second.

You have to think about the new world order for trade

CHINA, INDIA, USA, BRASIL, etc etc

Europe as one trading block fits in quite high in the top pecking order - what number does a lone country on the outskirts of Europe come in at?

We don't have any oil, coal or steel industries. We wrecked our manufacturing industries years ago so that only leaves the Sq mile!

Its not going to take much to move those finance services to Paris, Frankfurt or anywhere else in Europe is it. That won't leave us much to trade with will it?

Why do you think it hasnt been done before then ?

 

[Don Quixote]

Cameron just isn't a strong leader, he doesn't look like one to the other countries of the world anyway. At least with Blair he was respected.

 

[Chicken Run]

Cameron just isn't a strong leader, he doesn't look like one to the other countries of the world anyway. At least with Blair he was respected.

Don can you explain how I remove coffee from my screen and keyboard. cheers

 

[Simster]

To me it is a major source of embarrassment.

Obviously. But if this thread is anything to go by, then to most of us, it isn't. And that goes for fairly leftist Europhiles like me too. Honestly, you fuss and fret over this perception but ignore some of the other embarrassing aspects of our European cousins.

Apparently our politicians embarrass us, but you are slow to acknowledge the plethora of piss poor French and Italian politicos. Even the Austrians and Belgians and probably others have had high profile xenophobes in their midsts.

And you'll talk about the belief in our football team when literally no-one I know has any belief in our football team, or leathery skinned Brits in Spain almost as if other nations don't have their own sources of embarrassment - what about fat, rude, queue-jumping, sun-bed hogging Germans, or the fact that the French and Spanish are almost as insular as the Americans (and rarely leave their own countries) and the French can be bloody obnoxious, or the fact that the Dutch have a reputation for being some of the tightest people you'll ever meet and so on? I don't think you've ever referenced any of this.

I don't doubt what you say is true, but there is never any balance. Your anti-Brit rants weaken your pro-EU argument.

 

[BigGully]

Don can you explain how I remove coffee from my screen and keyboard. cheers

I am sure that is an old one, but did make me laugh ......

 

[Simster]

Don can you explain how I remove coffee from my screen and keyboard. cheers

Blair was far more respected than Cameron. He won 3 or 4 elections. Call Me Dave hasn't even won one even when he was up against a muppet like Gordon Brown.

And as well as his electorate, he was also respected in Europe. I remember when he completely owned Jacques Chirac, who responded by mocking our food shortly (thereby distancing other embarrassed European leaders) before refusing to fly to Singapore for the Olympic announcement (unlike Blair) and losing that too.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

To put it crudely, f*** your foreign friends, I really couldnt give a monkeys how "flummoxed" they get.

Fine. I really dont think they will loose any sleep over you.

 

[User removed 4]

Fine. I really dont think they will loose any sleep over you.

I'm quite sure they won't , but thats neither here nor there is it ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Obviously. But if this thread is anything to go by, then to most of us, it isn't. And that goes for fairly leftist Europhiles like me too. Honestly, you fuss and fret over this perception but ignore some of the other embarrassing aspects of our European cousins.

Apparently our politicians embarrass us, but you are slow to acknowledge the plethora of piss poor French and Italian politicos. Even the Austrians and Belgians and probably others have had high profile xenophobes in their midsts.

And you'll talk about the belief in our football team when literally no-one I know has any belief in our football team, or leathery skinned Brits in Spain almost as if other nations don't have their own sources of embarrassment - what about fat, rude, queue-jumping, sun-bed hogging Germans, or the fact that the French and Spanish are almost as insular as the Americans (and rarely leave their own countries) and the French can be bloody obnoxious, or the fact that the Dutch have a reputation for being some of the tightest people you'll ever meet and so on? I don't think you've ever referenced any of this.

I don't doubt what you say is true, but there is never any balance. Your anti-Brit rants weaken your pro-EU argument.

Of course I am aware of other countries failings. Even my beloved German's have their faults, sizable neo-nazism being one of them. I'm not sure why you think they're fat though. But, in general, continental europe has an over-riding desire to get on with each other, are generally more humble and undertake things with a common sense and pragmatic approach. This is what I desire and it's not anti-British. I have the same feelings towards anyone or anything with similar short comings whether they're from here or not.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

what about fat, rude, queue-jumping, sun-bed hogging Germans

minor cultural differences.

 

[User removed 4]

what about fat, rude, queue-jumping, sun-bed hogging Germans,

thats enough about HT'S wife

 

[User removed 4]

Of course I am aware of other countries failings. Even my beloved German's have their faults, sizable neo-nazism being one of them. I'm not sure why you think they're fat though. But, in general, continental europe has an over-riding desire to get on with each other, are generally more humble and undertake things with a common sense and pragmatic approach. This is what I desire and it's not anti-British. I have the same feelings towards anyone or anything with similar short comings whether they're from here or not.

you're actually serious aren't you ?

 

[BigGully]

Of course I am aware of other countries failings. Even my beloved German's have their faults, sizable neo-nazism being one of them. I'm not sure why you think they're fat though. But, in general, continental europe has an over-riding desire to get on with each other, are generally more humble and undertake things with a common sense and pragmatic approach. This is what I desire and it's not anti-British. I have the same feelings towards anyone or anything with similar short comings whether they're from here or not.

Having lived and worked in continental Europe, I find it a bizarre interpretation of their traits.

I had always felt that there is an inherent mistrust between many of their nations, far more than the British and other nations, born out of the two world wars fought between them.

I guess it would be rather odd if there wasn't.

Differences currently being smoothed over by financial and political trysts, its how they work.