Are we still a European force?

[Herr Tubthumper]

At what point do you direct an unwillingness at Merkel and Sarkozy for not offering some understanding to our own stance.

France and Germany were in a very strong position. This is part of my issue. Had Cameron had a few chats in the corridors of the EU, built up friendships etc, got some willing countries to side with him, his position would have been much stronger and by extension France and Germany's weaker. He didn't box clever. He had no strength or allies or position to bargain from.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

failed project.

Please remind me how much we spent saving our banks.

 

[BigGully]

Please remind me how much we spent saving our banks.

Hey I dont mind hammering the world's banks, no problem at all.

But how does that deflect from Merkels and Sarkozy's role of the near collapse of the Euro.

 

[beorhthelm]

France and Germany were in a very strong position.

have you come in mid-way through the series? Germany and France have a gun at their head, complete collapse of the euro or funding a massive bailout.

Please remind me how much we spent saving our banks.

about £40billion. net cost of EU to UK? £10billion each year.

 

[User removed 4]

Yes. I'd like a say in how the 26 other nations act. It's pretty obvious the 26 are going to BE BULLIED INTO MAKING decisions which now benefit FRANCE AND GERMANY, with no UK consideration. And what can we do about it? Thanks to Cameron's negotiation skills zilch.

Corrected for you, well done Sarkozy and Merkel, the future of the eurozone is at stake so lets pick a fight with Britain over something which has no bearing on the single currency.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

i'm confused by your position. how is going in to negotiations and agreeing to everything somehow a victory? .

I understand there were 6 main items on Cameron's agenda. I'll be generous and say 2 out of 6 would have constituted a victory. 0, by any stretch of the imagination, is not.

And why just protect the city? What about manufacturing? The steel industry are now worried about where this decision will take them. One of the coalition pledges was to re-balance the economy. I didn't hear anything about this in Cameron's reasoning. Maybe its because 50% of Tory donations come from the Square Mile he spends so much time pandering to them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Corrected for you, well done Sarkozy and Merkel, the future of the eurozone is at stake so lets pick a fight with Britain over something which has no bearing on the single currency.

Fight? It was hardly a fight. I think they're just tired/bored with the UK now. As was said in response to Gideon a few weeks back "we don't have time to listen to every single little island."

 

[beorhthelm]

I understand there were 6 main items on Cameron's agenda. I'll be generous and say 2 out of 6 would have constituted a victory. 0, by any stretch of the imagination, is not.

if he got 5/6 and the one he lost was the FTT, it would be a hollow victory. i dont think the impact on all the ecomony, on non-financial businesses for example aquiring capital or consumers loans and mortgages, would be impacted by this tax.

 

[User removed 4]

Two assurances Cameron wanted were safe guards for the city, and for the European Banking Authority to remain in London. He got neither. With respect to the former only an idiot will suggest that the 26 will not strike deals which now favour themselves. The EBA will almost certainly relocate.

Brilliant negotiation skills. f***ing brilliant.

Do you REALLY think that this will have a negative effect on the City and if so why ?

 

[User removed 4]

Fight? It was hardly a fight. I think they're just tired/bored with the UK now. As was said in response to Gideon a few weeks back "we don't have time to listen to every single little island."

Perhaps we are bored with the likes of Sarkozy and Merkel demanding that we put aside "national interests" for the sake of saving the eurozone, if thats the case why dont we start with the comon agricultural policy, they never seem to be very keen on putting aside national interests where that is concerned.

 

[Huple]

Are we still a European force ?

I`ve not read through the whole thread but no winners since Katrina and The Waves in 1997 with `Love Shine A Light` tells its own story. We actually blanked in 2003 and with it being held in Baku, Azerbaijan in may of next year I really cannot see with our poor record in that region any hopes whatsoever of us winning.

 

[Simster]

Fight? It was hardly a fight. I think they're just tired/bored with the UK now. As was said in response to Gideon a few weeks back "we don't have time to listen to every single little island."

But that's just example of French arrogance. Every little island? How about 3rd biggest economy in Europe and one of it's biggest net contributors.

Funny how Sarkozy is today quoted as saying the EU would be greatly impoverished without Britain. And he's right.

If the little Englanders in the Tory party ever did end up getting their way and having us pull out of the EU, I'd have f*** all sympathy for the French in particular. Their politicians are an absolute joke.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Perhaps we are bored with the likes of Sarkozy and Merkel demanding that we put aside "national interests" for the sake of saving the eurozone, if thats the case why dont we start with the comon agricultural policy, they never seem to be very keen on putting aside national interests where that is concerned.

If Britain didn't just roll over, and had more clout and was savvy, then maybe we would be able to hold onto national interests. Don't bleat when you have lost out.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But that's just example of French arrogance. Every little island? How about 3rd biggest economy in Europe and one of it's biggest net contributors.

Funny how Sarkozy is today quoted as saying the EU would be greatly impoverished without Britain. And he's right.

If the little Englanders in the Tory party ever did end up getting their way and having us pull out of the EU, I'd have f*** all sympathy for the French in particular. Their politicians are an absolute joke.

It was a German who made the comment. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

 

[User removed 4]

It was a German who made the comment. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

German arrogance then, you know full well what the german equivalent of our "kraut" is , it's inselaffe( which means island monkeys for those not in the know!)

 

[Simster]

If Britain didn't just roll over, and had more clout and was savvy, then maybe we would be able to hold onto national interests. Don't bleat when you have lost out.

Could you tell the French and Germans the same thing?

You know, what with us deciding to opt out of the Euro, but being asked for funding to prop it up when it all goes pear shaped? How about the Euro countries do the bulk of the fixing?

 

[Simster]

It was a German who made the comment. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

I'd say German's aren't usually arrogant, whereas the French are. I am genuinely surprised to hear it was a German polician uttering those disrespectful comments.

 

[User removed 4]

If Britain didn't just roll over, and had more clout and was savvy, then maybe we would be able to hold onto national interests. Don't bleat when you have lost out.

We dont just roll over , as has been proved, most of the large european countries have so called "redline" policies, ours was the tobin tax , which totally and utterly wrecked nordic equity trading so much so that even when the tax was repealed , the market stayed in london and has never moved back, france has the common agricultural policy, like it or not, the city is a huge contributor to our gdp, and a transaction tax would have a severely negative effect on that .

 

[cunning fergus]

If I had my way I'd make people take a test before theyre allowed to vote.

With your username and statements like this I can fully understand why you are so keen on the European project. Why not cut out the flim flam and get straight to the benefits of eugenics Herr Von Verscheur?

The irony is of course you would normally class yourself as a feedom loving liberal............but as we can tell from this thread this outlook is predicated on the assumption that we all have to agree with you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Do you REALLY think that this will have a negative effect on the City and if so why ?

Of course I cannot say for sure, as I have no idea what future EU deals between the 26 will be struck but I'm sure they will look after themselves.....and be favourable to route finances through them instead of a little island cut off from the real business.

According to today's press Deutsche Bank is the largest single bank employer in the city. Other eurozone nations also have very significant presence. I think this might change. Especially if future agreements within the new EU make it attractive to route transactions elsewhere. The big economies also see the UK as a european gateway due to our power and influence in Europe; will they now? If you want to go to the heart of Europe I'd say Frankfurt will be a better future option.