Albion agreed to Reading's offer for Gus Poyet?

[Questions]

Make your mind up!

The first post is obviously a wind up but after what he did I am glad the club have acted as they have. Let the lawyers thrash out whether it was gross misconduct but to me it doesn't matter what you call it. When it comes out you'll see.

 

[Bladders]

The first post is obviously a wind up but after what he did I am glad the club have acted as they have. Let the lawyers thrash out whether it was gross misconduct but to me it doesn't matter what you call it. When it comes out you'll see.

Would you PM me with it?

 

[Acker79]

Theoretically, but the former barely exists. 99% of managers stay because the options out there aren't desirable, some dress it up as loyalty. Desirability isn't just an absolute concept either, it depends on the difference in attractiveness between the current job and new job. The fact that for Gus lower end prem wasn't desirable says a lot for what he thought of Brighton, others have jumped for far less.

Theoretically? In actuality I think you'll find there are large numbers of managers who aren't itching to leave. Wenger, parew, mourinho, moyes, Rogers... That's a quarter of the division (and more than 5% of the English league) who fit in the former category without looking beyond the big teams.

That's not to say they and other managers don't have career goals, ideas of rising as high up the professional ladder as possible. But there is a difference between "I really want to leave, this club is growing too slowly... no this job opening isn't good enough, nor this one, nor this one, damnit when is there going to become I can leave for?!" and "I want to get as far in my career as possible, I'd love to get a chance at a premier league club, but I'm happy where I am for now, this opening would be nice, but they're eyeing up someone else, but I don't mind, I like it here and still feel the club and I are growing"

 

[Lord Bracknell]

...

The use of the 'clackers' was strongly condemned by Poyet in THAT e-mail....well knowing it was Paul Barber who sanctioned the idea.

Clearly, Poyet thought he could do no wrong and was able to do...and say....as he pleased, or his mood took him.

A man on the brink of being out of control ...

... or, alternatively, a man on the brink of being completely right.

 

[Ernest]

Could always be that Poyet stated what was needed to reach the EPL in terms of players, squad and budget and the BB Boys thought that they could do it cheaper without Poyet & Co thus engineering his way out

 

[ewe2]

... or, alternatively, a man on the brink of being completely right.

Then a court must decide......

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Theoretically? In actuality I think you'll find there are large numbers of managers who aren't itching to leave. Wenger, parew, mourinho, moyes, Rogers... That's a quarter of the division (and more than 5% of the English league) who fit in the former category without looking beyond the big teams.

That's not to say they and other managers don't have career goals, ideas of rising as high up the professional ladder as possible. But there is a difference between "I really want to leave, this club is growing too slowly... no this job opening isn't good enough, nor this one, nor this one, damnit when is there going to become I can leave for?!" and "I want to get as far in my career as possible, I'd love to get a chance at a premier league club, but I'm happy where I am for now, this opening would be nice, but they're eyeing up someone else, but I don't mind, I like it here and still feel the club and I are growing"

Um, sorry, of the five names you list three have switched clubs in the past year, two in the past month. Rodgers and Mourinho were at their previous club for a shorter period of time than Poyet was at the Albion. No, show me the truly loyal manager who turns down better offers purely out of loyalty for his club. There'll be a couple over the past decade I expect.

As for your second paragraph, its semantics. Are you seriously suggesting that people prefer a manager like Coppell who says that its really hard to leave Brighton, he loves it here, and then buggers off to the championship, compared to Poyet who says that he would love to manage Chelsea one day and certainly hopes to manage in the prem, and then turns down offers from the prem. Actually, you don't need to answer that, I know many people would rather the sweet-talking disloyal manager, and it makes me

[not to mention that Poyet frequently said things like "I like it here and still feel the club and I are growing"]

 

[B.W.]

But in both cases all you're saying is that Gus wanted to manage in the prem if a bigger club wanted him. Which is basically the norm in football and the position adopted by 99% of all league managers and all our successful managers in the past. The fact is that Poyet was one of the most loyal managers out there and that we've ever had, and yet somehow he is being treated differently to others and considered to have committed 'gross misconduct' by telling Leeds he liked them, indeed we still seem rather fond of Coppell who gave us one season then left to a club that had never been in the top flight, or Taylor who left after less than a season because the budget wasn't big enough, or MA who left first time round to be an assistant at Leicester, or Nobby who decided Port Vale was a better bet.

Just out of interest, and as I have said repeatedly, Gus was NOT sacked for gross misconduct because of his flirtations with various other clubs (including Leeds, as you suggest incorrectly), and moans about budget (both very much in public, stupidly), but because he is in BREACH OF CONTRACT. The bit we know about is refusing to do his job (not handling the retained list <- idiotic)!

Also, you are wrong to accuse Coppell of disloyalty. We desperately needed the compensation money from Reading (Knight), and you might want to note Coppell's comments around the time about us being a bigger club than Reading, which upset their fans! Also, Taylor was right about the budget, Poyet never was. Adams went to a stronger club at the time (obviously with some idea he was being positioned to become manager at some point). Horton was just plain wrong in his thinking!

Other than that, i.e. everything you said, I 100% agree! ;-)

 

[B.W.]

Theoretically, but the former barely exists. 99% of managers stay because the options out there aren't desirable, some dress it up as loyalty. Desirability isn't just an absolute concept either, it depends on the difference in attractiveness between the current job and new job. The fact that for Gus lower end prem wasn't desirable says a lot for what he thought of Brighton, others have jumped for far less.

Please take the specs off. Gus wanted out. He showed zero appreciation for his chairman's AMAZING support. No respect for the board, the fans. He got sacked (rightly). Just get over it. He ain't coming back!

 

[B.W.]

Except Gus didn't jump, he was pushed

Having written his own 'suicide note'...

 

[B.W.]

Thanks for reminding me about THAT E-mail.

With hindsight and a 'cooling-off' period following the Palace game, it really was a shocking e-mail.

The 'poo-gate' incident referred to in THAT e-mail is clearly suggesting it was done by a BHA individual as some sort of sick prank. I understand the general concensus, following an investigation, is that it 'probably' was a Palace member of staff (not players), who was unwell and got caught short.

The use of the 'clackers' was strongly condemned by Poyet in THAT e-mail....well knowing it was Paul Barber who sanctioned the idea.

Clearly, Poyet thought he could do no wrong and was able to do...and say....as he pleased, or his mood took him.

A man on the brink of being out of control.

It should be no surprise that Tarrico and Oatway were also suspended. Their immediate boss acted with impunity. It is often natural that if the 'ships captain' sets a poor example of behaviour....his crew will frequently follow that example.Unfortunately for Poyet, even ships have owners......and they expect, rightly so......their 'captains' to set high standards.

Like many no doubt, I have heard reasons/rumours why all three were suspended. Like many, no doubt the reasons/rumours appear unconnected. The only common factor in all three, appears, to be that they thought they were above the laws of others in the club.

I,m sorry he has gone......but it was always going to end in tears. I,m grateful for the enthusiasm and (mostly) the style of play introduced during his three and a half years. I just hope that we continue to move onwards as a club and Tony Bloom has not been so offended by his 'apparent' ingratitude that he questions his generosity and vision for this club.

That last bit really sums up well how I feel. We really should ALL, as supporters of the club, rally behind Tony.

 

[B.W.]

... or, alternatively, a man on the brink of being completely right.

Do you really believe that LB? The clackers were a bad idea but, then, so were Gus' team selection and tactics on the night. Did Barber criticise Gus publically about this or anything else? Would that be acceptable? No, I thought not.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Just out of interest, and as I have said repeatedly, Gus was NOT sacked for gross misconduct because of his flirtations with various other clubs (including Leeds, as you suggest incorrectly), and moans about budget (both very much in public, stupidly), but because he is in BREACH OF CONTRACT. The bit we know about is refusing to do his job (not handling the retained list <- idiotic)!

Also, you are wrong to accuse Coppell of disloyalty. We desperately needed the compensation money from Reading (Knight), and you might want to note Coppell's comments around the time about us being a bigger club than Reading, which upset their fans! Also, Taylor was right about the budget, Poyet never was. Adams went to a stronger club at the time (obviously with some idea he was being positioned to become manager at some point). Horton was just plain wrong in his thinking!

Other than that, i.e. everything you said, I 100% agree! ;-)

Taylor was right about the budget but it was cowardly to walk away, gave us no chance in the champ. We don't know yet if Poyet was right.

anyway, the first point. We have no bloody idea what Gus was actually fired for. The stuff with the retained list just seems a symptom of his impending firing, not the cause of it. I cannot envision a situation where that would be the reason for his getting sacked, although I acknowledge that it will add strength to the charge sheet. He is most probably not with us because his relationship with TB fell to pieces.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Please take the specs off. Gus wanted out. He showed zero appreciation for his chairman's AMAZING support. No respect for the board, the fans. He got sacked (rightly). Just get over it. He ain't coming back!

Pie in the sky conjecture littered with falsehoods and speculation. Take your own specs off...

 

[B.W.]

Pie in the sky conjecture littered with falsehoods and speculation. Take your own specs off...

Tell me which bit is speculation and falsehood then... good luck with that! ;-)

 

[Acker79]

Um, sorry, of the five names you list three have switched clubs in the past year, two in the past month. Rodgers and Mourinho were at their previous club for a shorter period of time than Poyet was at the Albion. No, show me the truly loyal manager who turns down better offers purely out of loyalty for his club. There'll be a couple over the past decade I expect.

As for your second paragraph, its semantics. Are you seriously suggesting that people prefer a manager like Coppell who says that its really hard to leave Brighton, he loves it here, and then buggers off to the championship, compared to Poyet who says that he would love to manage Chelsea one day and certainly hopes to manage in the prem, and then turns down offers from the prem. Actually, you don't need to answer that, I know many people would rather the sweet-talking disloyal manager, and it makes me

[not to mention that Poyet frequently said things like "I like it here and still feel the club and I are growing"]

It's irrelevant to my point that they left previous teams. They are now at teams at which they are happy to be there. You suggest 99% of managers are only at the clubs they are at because they don't have other options. That does not apply to the five I mentioned. Rogers chose to go to liverpool and I suspect he is happy there for now. Mourinho is at the club he currently wants to be at. And so on.

My second paragraph is not about comparing Gus to Coppell or fan reactions with respect to them or their like. My second paragraph is about the difference between gus staying with us while wanting to leave and hoping each next vacancy is one he wants and can get, and gus wanting to stay with us while being open to potential career advancement. It's not just semantics, it's at the very heart of your earlier posts about his loyalty and him wanting to stay.


To your point about people getting their knickers in a twist any time he acknowledge a vacancy and any appeal it may have, I agree. Some fans have been ridiculously sensitive over them. I don't disagree. But this situation is more complex than "the club wanted shot of him, ergo, he was loyal, he wanted to stay with us". He may have wanted to, but it isn't something to assume even if the article in the OP is accurate.

 

[ROSM]

So you are saying this email to the world was a great idea and didn't undermine the club? Gus's email

Bloom was paying him £3k a day when he wrote this ffs, and if he had a problem he should have been respectful and raised his concerns directly to Bloom, NOT THE WORLD!!!

If I was his employer I would want him out just on that basis even if he was an angel up until that point.

That mail was neither misconduct nor gross misconduct. If it were, I am sure any Albion employees that saw it prior to being sent would also be subject to similar disciplinary actions.

It did serve the purpose however of putting some context to the clubs next actions.

I wonder if the mail it was in response to will ever be made public?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Heard something slightly different, in that, the club drove him to Gatwick for the meeting with Reading prior to him going on the trip to ?Barbados. Apparently whilst away he made the decision as it 'was only Reading'....... At least this is what somebody very close to Gus had mentioned at a dinner.

When you think of the chain of events, it is plausible, but all hearsay and rumour of course...... We'll probably never know until Gus brings out his book!!!

Frankly don't really care any more.

'It was only Reading' were the exact words used by Tanno in one of the press conferences following. Gus avoided doing them leaving them to Tanno & Charlie if he could.
I doubt that the club drove him to Gatwick when he flew out at 6am and he lives in Orpington.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

... or, alternatively, a man on the brink of being completely right.

He refused to work, down tools and said no! How is that someone being right? Thats without the media whoring, big club courting, email sending complete errors of judgement he had.

 

[Acker79]

He refused to work, down tools and said no! How is that someone being right? Thats without the media whoring, big club courting, email sending complete errors of judgement he had.

I think if you look at the section of your post he included, he was only saying he was right about the clackers.