Albion agreed to Reading's offer for Gus Poyet?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I am very interested to see that the person who told me what actually happened (wrt Reading), and the other people I know who were told, have not posted anything on this thread, so I don't intend to break with this.

However, I will say that from what I was told, the explanation of events given by the OP's link is nearly correct, but sufficiently incorrect to provide a false explanation of what happened next.

For what its worth, I have been told nothing that would explain the 'gross misconduct'. However, GP did refuse to handle the 'retained' list and if I were TB, what with the clear desire of GP to leave, the public flirting with other clubs, and (my understanding that) GP seemed 'unable to grasp or accept' that the rules (and not our lack of money) prevent us spending more than a certain amount on players, I would have sacked him for gross misconduct.

There will be more speculation emerging, masquerading as fact, and its bound to trigger debate. Unfortunately the only certainty is that the true facts will never be made know. Having said that, I have been told nothing that reflects badly in any way on the club, the owner, or the senior staff, so I for one am relaxed and looking forward very much to the new season.

 

[symyjym]

Indeed, and even tony, the board, gus, Paul and their representatives will have their own biases too. I'm assuming rose is the hr person who will have heard both sides so might have some idea as to what the truth is by reading between the two sides version of events, but even that is guess work. It's the Rashomon effect.

I hear what you are saying, and it's not like a murder case where there is only one truth.

Though it is probably true that Gus couldn’t assure TB of his commitment and even questioned his coaching methods, on all levels, that would have been instilled into the academy for the long term.

I think Gus wanted to be the master of his own clique and dictate to Bloom, but he would have been under close scrutiny from Blooms advisers and colleagues pointing out various coaching flaws and where it could go wrong in the future.

What I am saying is that we had an awful December and Bloom would have been looking at other options then. Obviously if he knew OG was going to leave Maccabi he would have been very keen to bring him over here and discussions had probably, quite rightly, been going on since the turn of the year. Any club who made an offer for Gus would have been agreed to as far as TB was concerned.

The only question then was how Gus would depart, either by leaving for another club or by hanging himself, and although promotion would have saved him it probably would have given Gus too much power.

Failing to get promotion was probably a blessing in disguise.

 

[symyjym]

For what its worth, I have been told nothing that would explain the 'gross misconduct'. However, GP did refuse to handle the 'retained' list and if I were TB, what with the clear desire of GP to leave, the public flirting with other clubs, and (my understanding that) GP seemed 'unable to grasp or accept' that the rules (and not our lack of money) prevent us spending more than a certain amount on players, I would have sacked him for gross misconduct.

The angry email to all AITC & BHAFC staff that leaked to the press was gross misconduct in any employment setting and it may have been hard to suspend / sack him if it wasn't for that.

 

[Loadicus Trux]

I have an awful feeling I might be shot down for asking this, but, never mind.

Gus was suspended for gross misconduct, and it is alleged that it had something to do with the Reading vacancy.

So why were Tanno and Charlie also suspended along with him?

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

I have an awful feeling I might be shot down for asking this, but, never mind.

Gus was suspended for gross misconduct, and it is alleged that it had something to do with the Reading vacancy.

So why were Tanno and Charlie also suspended along with him?

Very good question and no need to be flamed for it. The way i understand it is that the three suspensions were not related or at least Gus and Charlie were not alleged to have done the same thing. Tanno was obviously reinstated but then left by mutual consent with a 'good luck and thank you' message once 0G came in. Charlie left by mutual consent with a 'great servant and good luck message' but never had his suspension lifted / reinstated to the coaching team. So the only sacking is Gus'; originally suspended for breach of contract, fired for gross misconduct.

Does that help?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

While I think people overstate or exaggerate his comments about other jobs, just because he didn't want to go to reading doesn't mean he wanted to stay. And the two higher level clubs I know of that he turned down were both with clubs who were not going to stay higher level, wolves and reading, who would drop down and some would say were not exactly steps up in terms of club size (though I think that would be looking through seagull coloured glasses).

This situation is probably not so straight forward as only one side wants it to end, and if you hear the club wanted him to go, it doesn't automatically mean he wanted to stay.

I see the irony but it is based on a HUGE 'IF'.

Green (with envy of anyone managing in the Prem) is the colour of Gus!

But in both cases all you're saying is that Gus wanted to manage in the prem if a bigger club wanted him. Which is basically the norm in football and the position adopted by 99% of all league managers and all our successful managers in the past. The fact is that Poyet was one of the most loyal managers out there and that we've ever had, and yet somehow he is being treated differently to others and considered to have committed 'gross misconduct' by telling Leeds he liked them, indeed we still seem rather fond of Coppell who gave us one season then left to a club that had never been in the top flight, or Taylor who left after less than a season because the budget wasn't big enough, or MA who left first time round to be an assistant at Leicester, or Nobby who decided Port Vale was a better bet.

 

[Buckley's Mad Eye]

But in both cases all you're saying is that Gus wanted to manage in the prem if a bigger club wanted him. Which is basically the norm in football and the position adopted by 99% of all league managers and all our successful managers in the past. The fact is that Poyet was one of the most loyal managers out there and that we've ever had, and yet somehow he is being treated differently to others and considered to have committed 'gross misconduct' by telling Leeds he liked them, indeed we still seem rather fond of Coppell who gave us one season then left to a club that had never been in the top flight, or Taylor who left after less than a season because the budget wasn't big enough, or MA who left first time round to be an assistant at Leicester, or Nobby who decided Port Vale was a better bet.

I seem to remember that we were pissed off with all of those former managers when they jumped, and they had a clean break (so to speak). In time Poyet too will be remembered with fondness, but at the moment most are taking TB's side of the argument which is natural.

 

[Acker79]

But in both cases all you're saying is that Gus wanted to manage in the prem if a bigger club wanted him. Which is basically the norm in football and the position adopted by 99% of all league managers and all our successful managers in the past. The fact is that Poyet was one of the most loyal managers out there and that we've ever had, and yet somehow he is being treated differently to others and considered to have committed 'gross misconduct' by telling Leeds he liked them, indeed we still seem rather fond of Coppell who gave us one season then left to a club that had never been in the top flight, or Taylor who left after less than a season because the budget wasn't big enough, or MA who left first time round to be an assistant at Leicester, or Nobby who decided Port Vale was a better bet.

No, what I'm saying is there is a difference between staying because you want to (loyalty), and staying because the options out there aren't desirable (not so much about loyalty).

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Apologies if I've missed this in another post, but I'd be very surprised if GP didn't have a clause in his contract - as many other managers in the Football League do - that allowed him to talk to any Premier League club that came in for him. So the club might not have had any option but to let him talk to Reading.

If he had talked to them or any other club without the Albion's knowledge, then that would be different. But of course, how could anyone prove that? Because the other club would certainly deny it, especially if they already had a manager in place.

 

[keaton]

The angry email to all AITC & BHAFC staff was gross misconduct .

Really? If (IF) that was the gross misconduct that's a joke reason to sack someone

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Really? If (IF) that was the gross misconduct that's a joke reason to sack someone

That might depend on whether you're looking for a reason to sack someone or not ...

 

[Brovion]

The problem with ALL these reports, stories whatever is that unless your source is Tony Bloom, Gus Poyet or Paul Barber AND you know them sufficiently well that they trust you and will confide in you - then all you have heard is office gossip.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No, what I'm saying is there is a difference between staying because you want to (loyalty), and staying because the options out there aren't desirable (not so much about loyalty).

Theoretically, but the former barely exists. 99% of managers stay because the options out there aren't desirable, some dress it up as loyalty. Desirability isn't just an absolute concept either, it depends on the difference in attractiveness between the current job and new job. The fact that for Gus lower end prem wasn't desirable says a lot for what he thought of Brighton, others have jumped for far less.

 

[symyjym]

Really? If (IF) that was the gross misconduct that's a joke reason to sack someone

So you are saying this email to the world was a great idea and didn't undermine the club? Gus's email

Bloom was paying him £3k a day when he wrote this ffs, and if he had a problem he should have been respectful and raised his concerns directly to Bloom, NOT THE WORLD!!!

If I was his employer I would want him out just on that basis even if he was an angel up until that point.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Apologies if I've missed this in another post, but I'd be very surprised if GP didn't have a clause in his contract - as many other managers in the Football League do - that allowed him to talk to any Premier League club that came in for him. So the club might not have had any option but to let him talk to Reading.

If he had talked to them or any other club without the Albion's knowledge, then that would be different. But of course, how could anyone prove that? Because the other club would certainly deny it, especially if they already had a manager in place.

Wasn't the clause if the £2m compensation to BHAFC was to be met then the club would allow the talks to take place and this is exactly what reading did, promised to meet the compensation fee.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Wasn't the clause if the £2m compensation to BHAFC was to be met then the club would allow the talks to take place and this is exactly what reading did, promised to meet the compensation fee.

Of course, there'd be compo if the deal was done. Normally you'd expect to have to pay off the rest of the contract, and at the time the £2m was actually less than that, I believe.

There are contracts in baseball that require teams to put the money up before talks can take place, but I've never heard of that here.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I seem to remember that we were pissed off with all of those former managers when they jumped, and they had a clean break (so to speak). In time Poyet too will be remembered with fondness, but at the moment most are taking TB's side of the argument which is natural.

Except Gus didn't jump, he was pushed

 

[symyjym]

Except Gus didn't jump, he was pushed

He did have the option to jump before he put the noose around his own kneck.

 

[Buckley's Mad Eye]

Except Gus didn't jump, he was pushed

Makes little difference, when it comes down to the Bloom push or the Poyet shove most will side with the chairman (which is a bit of a unique situation in football).

 

[cjd]

So you are saying this email to the world was a great idea and didn't undermine the club? Gus's email

Bloom was paying him £3k a day when he wrote this ffs, and if he had a problem he should have been respectful and raised his concerns directly to Bloom, NOT THE WORLD!!!

If I was his employer I would want him out just on that basis even if he was an angel up until that point.

Thanks for reminding me about THAT E-mail.

With hindsight and a 'cooling-off' period following the Palace game, it really was a shocking e-mail.

The 'poo-gate' incident referred to in THAT e-mail is clearly suggesting it was done by a BHA individual as some sort of sick prank. I understand the general concensus, following an investigation, is that it 'probably' was a Palace member of staff (not players), who was unwell and got caught short.

The use of the 'clackers' was strongly condemned by Poyet in THAT e-mail....well knowing it was Paul Barber who sanctioned the idea.

Clearly, Poyet thought he could do no wrong and was able to do...and say....as he pleased, or his mood took him.

A man on the brink of being out of control.

It should be no surprise that Tarrico and Oatway were also suspended. Their immediate boss acted with impunity. It is often natural that if the 'ships captain' sets a poor example of behaviour....his crew will frequently follow that example.Unfortunately for Poyet, even ships have owners......and they expect, rightly so......their 'captains' to set high standards.

Like many no doubt, I have heard reasons/rumours why all three were suspended. Like many, no doubt the reasons/rumours appear unconnected. The only common factor in all three, appears, to be that they thought they were above the laws of others in the club.

I,m sorry he has gone......but it was always going to end in tears. I,m grateful for the enthusiasm and (mostly) the style of play introduced during his three and a half years. I just hope that we continue to move onwards as a club and Tony Bloom has not been so offended by his 'apparent' ingratitude that he questions his generosity and vision for this club.