Thank You Tony Blair

[Pigsy]

Not so sure getting kids to memorize facts for a test is better than teaching them the means to interpret and interact with the world around them.

Perhaps the development of a human being isn't as easily quantifiable as say a profit margin.

Then how would you measure a good teacher? We've all suffered ones we felt were bad, but the child is probably not the best judge.

 

[Les Biehn]

Then how would you measure a good teacher? We've all suffered ones we felt were bad, but the child is probably not the best judge.

Their behaviour, the quality of their work, how they interact with their peers etc...

Surely it doesn't always have to come down to a statistic.

I realise it sounds like a lot of hard work but as you said, they are our future.

 

[London Calling]

What about the factthat the police can no longer nick villans and have to spend all the time filling in paperwork.

Judges giving out soft sentences.

Not enough prisons.

The list goes on.

Vote Labour

started under the tories.

 

[London Calling]

Reading much of this thread, a lot of people attack Blair, promote Conservatism but blame new labour for initiatives originally started under the tories.


In my eyes we have a much better country now than in 1993, Hackney has changed radically and generally the world agrees to has London.

I reckon Brighton is now a better place, though this i=s based on match days and day trips.

We have a farier society than in 93 and we don't no longer have no go areas.

However, we could have a fairer society, we could have more wealth distribution, more should be done to child care and help women into work. The state needs to provide social housing - that can't be sold.

Our towns need more gentrification and more investment, more culture, we rally lag behing Europe here and our national sporting sides are still jokes.

LC

 

[Col P]

If, as is being widely touted, Blair steps down tomorrow then securing a (hopefully) lasting peace in Northern Ireland will be a fitting legacy.

Thank you Tony for rescuing this country from the evil grip of the Conservative Party.

Spot on

 

[Scoffers]

Well if you strip out all those comments from hard core Blairites, and do the same on the Tory side, you'll come close to the truth, which is that Blair and New Labour have brought about some improvements, like the Tories before them, but they have also royally buggered some things up (like the tories before them)

Do you see a pattern emerging?

In the end, all governments fail and get kicked out, it's called Democracy. You just hope that in the intervening years, they do more good than harm.

The big issue that I have personally centers inevitably around Iraq. Just how much did Blair know, and just how much was made up to justify taking Saddam out.

To me you can't overlook the piss poor management of the whole Iraq issue and say that Blair's legacy will be devolution or whatever, his legacy is Iraq, and the fact that far from trying to make this country a safer place, it's actually never been so unsafe.

I am not a traditional Labour voter, but even I am rejoicing at the passing of Blair's leadership I sincerely hope that Gordon will provide a more accomplished way forward.

 

[chip]

In my eyes we have a much better country now than in 1993, Hackney has changed radically and generally the world agrees to has London.

I reckon Brighton is now a better place, though this i=s based on match days and day trips.

We have a farier society than in 93 and we don't no longer have no go areas.

However, we could have a fairer society, we could have more wealth distribution, more should be done to child care and help women into work. The state needs to provide social housing - that can't be sold.

Our towns need more gentrification and more investment, more culture, we rally lag behing Europe here and our national sporting sides are still jokes.

LC

I'd probably disagree with most of that. I think the biggest and most damaging legacy of Blair's reign of terror has been the overwhelming intrusion of the state into matters that should be of no concern to it combined with a beurocratic mindset that makes ardent Stalinists seem like nursery school teachers. I'll be cracking open a bottle of Krug when he expires.

 

[Pigsy]

Their behaviour, the quality of their work, how they interact with their peers etc...

Surely it doesn't always have to come down to a statistic.

I realise it sounds like a lot of hard work but as you said, they are our future.

But that will come down to a stat - you "measure" behaviour, you "measure" quality of work etc - you need to measure it against something to decide if it's at an acceptable level, based on previous years results/type of intake the school has (English as Foreign Language students etc). If the teacher has to do all that measuring, they'll soon be complaining even more about work levels.

It's our future, but I'm still buggered if I can think of a better way of measuring the standard of their education than by testing their knowledge. When I employ someone,thats one of the things I look at that, rather than whether they misbehaved at age 11, or whether they were the class joker at 14.

 

[DTES]

The war in Iraq was going to happen whatever Tony did. Bush was going to invade, full stop.

I'm not really sure what Blair thought about the weapons, but I believe Tony was faced with the choice of

a) Going with George, and facing the wrath of the left.
b) Not invading, and facing the wrath of the right who thought we would be being like the French "surrender monkeys".

He thought not going in would be more damaging to himself and the Government, so he went. I don't think he imagined it would end up like this. He chose wrong, and it backfired enormously.

As for Northern Ireland - whether you think he deserves all the credit or not is irrelevant. What he did there did make a big difference, and he does deserve some massive respect for it.

 

[Napper]

done a great job , will be dogged by the war but the country in a much better way than the dark days under the tories.

 

[London Calling]

I'd probably disagree with most of that. I think the biggest and most damaging legacy of Blair's reign of terror has been the overwhelming intrusion of the state into matters that should be of no concern to it combined with a beurocratic mindset that makes ardent Stalinists seem like nursery school teachers. I'll be cracking open a bottle of Krug when he expires.

I hope you agree my typing was crap................

 

[bigc]

Posts like Chip's make me wish people thought before using terms like Stalinist.

He was as bad as Hitler, just he killed his own race instead of someone elses!

If an ardent Stalinist was made to look like a nursery school teacher...

 

[Pigsy]

I hope you agree my typing was crap................

It was poor, and I was particularly disheartened with the following double negative "we don't no longer have no go areas".
I assume this homophobic comment was aimed at Brighton - "We have a farier society than in 93".

 

[chip]

I hope you agree my typing was crap................

I thought that part was OK

BigC: Stalin didn't just kill people, his party created a structure that could directly manipulate the minutiae of peoples everyday lives. In many ways Blair's government have exceeded what Stalin's regime achieved and hence the comparison. I don't think the two are that far apart in many respects, who knows what Blair would have been like if he had been born 70 years earlier. We are talking about a man who wishes to incarcerate people who may commit crimes, that seems quite Stalinistic to me.

 

[Les Biehn]

But that will come down to a stat - you "measure" behaviour, you "measure" quality of work etc - you need to measure it against something to decide if it's at an acceptable level, based on previous years results/type of intake the school has (English as Foreign Language students etc). If the teacher has to do all that measuring, they'll soon be complaining even more about work levels.

It's our future, but I'm still buggered if I can think of a better way of measuring the standard of their education than by testing their knowledge. When I employ someone,thats one of the things I look at that, rather than whether they misbehaved at age 11, or whether they were the class joker at 14.

So you would treat children as an employee?

Why do 9 year olds need testing?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Blair's government has done a great job domestically IMO. Increased spending on the NHS & Education, Northern Ireland, devolution etc. For people who say Major did all the hard work with Northern Ireland, I would point out how close the US (under Clinton) were to resolving the Israel/Palestine question - and then how Bush royally f***ed it up by saying he was going to get his Junior staff to take over that peace process. Blair's team continued the great work Major's team had done before.

Unfortunately for Blair, he will be remembered for Iraq - and that's a real shame

 

[Brighton Breezy]

The war in Iraq was going to happen whatever Tony did. Bush was going to invade, full stop.

I'm not really sure what Blair thought about the weapons, but I believe Tony was faced with the choice of

a) Going with George, and facing the wrath of the left.
b) Not invading, and facing the wrath of the right who thought we would be being like the French "surrender monkeys".

AND it got cross-party backing.

I notice the tory lovers on here are NOT mentioning the support the tories gave the war.

 

[Simster]

Unfortunately for Blair, he will be remembered for Iraq - and that's a real shame

How is that "a shame"? He chose to back Bush when no other self respecting western leader did (and certainly not to the same extent).

I thought Blair had done a reasonable job until then, but he's since cost thousands of lives. So it's a bit like saying Harold Shipman was a great GP if you can just get past the 200 odd murders on his watch.

I also think he's missed a great opportunity to resolve some of the bigger issues in the country, especially considering the massive mandate he received way back in '97. The NHS & education have received more funding, but the NHS is still a shambles education is still way behind what it could be if Labour hadn't been so obsessed with "choice".

 

[Simster]

As for Northern Ireland - whether you think he deserves all the credit or not is irrelevant. What he did there did make a big difference, and he does deserve some massive respect for it.

Agreed. McGuinness and Paisley have both been gushing with praise for the man - I think that says it all.

 

[clippedgull]

Thanks Tony