Hendo is CRAP

[Beach Hut]

You could well be right as we don't see them at training a Wilkins has hinted more than enough times about players needing to concentrate and keep learning.

Still I suppose it is nice to have two good keepers and for the record I do not think Hendo was at fault for any of the goals today.

 

[Scotty Mac]

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That's mainly fair enough. However, there is one crucial point you omit. Kuipers was out for a YEAR, Carpenter was out for a couple of months. Also, Carpenter has been given so many chances to regain his form since then. The reason Carpenter is playing so poorly is because he is too old, and simply past it. It's nothing to do with an injury he had over a year ago. With Michel though, he only lost his place through injury, and since he came back he has only been given a run of 4 games at most to regain his form. How is that fair? He was playing superbly before his injury, so why is he treated so badly when he comes back? As I said, the only fair thing to do was to give Michel at least 10 games in a row to be back to his best, and then judge things from there.

point taken - but the other thing is that kuipers was eased back into things slowly, certainly not rushed - he had a loan spell at boston in a league in which he would no doubt be the best keeper to regain some form and some confidence. he wasn't thrown in at the deep end, but the club nursed him back to fitness to give him the best possible chance to re-establish himself as number one

on the other hand, carptenter was on the bench that day simply because we had no midfield players last season. if oatway had not of got injured, im pretty certain carpetner would of been eased back in, coming off the bench to gain fitness and confidence - he certainly wouldn't of got in with the form oatway was on at that point. instead though, he was tossed into the midst of a relegation battle, short of fitness - especially important at christmas - confidence, and general match time

fact of the matter is when you are in the middle of a relegation battle, you cannot afford to give a man time to find his form. kuipers had the chance to do that at boston, but when he came back last season he was poor. unlike carpenter, we had a ready made replacement to throw in in henderson, who had proven himself that season as a capable man to play in the run in, and who has undoubtedly a better bet than a rusty kuipers

what should of happened was that once it was obvious we were down, michel should of had a run of games at the end of the season to get himself back in the frame. unfortunately by that point he'd had his hissy fit and put himself available for transfer, indicating he didn't want to play for the club at that time

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

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Genius

So much for 'constructed debate'....

So if that's so obvious, then why can you not accept that there was a reason Kuipers was dropped following his display at Bradford, and it wasn't just a case of him being treated 'unfairly'?

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

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You what, Marcus? I have made numerous references to the unfair treatment he has received, bordering on CRIMINAL in my opinion, which culminated with the disgraceful dropping following his heroics at Bradford.

And why is it unfair treatment? Because he's had one good game, one game where he's had nothing to do, and then been dropped.

There's more to the managers selection than the previous weeks 90 minutes. Obviously, a combination of Kuipers performing poorly in training and Henderson IMPRESSING have lead Wilkins to believe that Wayne is the man.

A good nintey minutes and form THREE SEASONS AGO is not enough for a player to prove themselves worthy of a number one jersey.

 

[chez]

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A good nintey minutes and form THREE SEASONS AGO is not enough for a player to prove themselves worthy of a number one jersey.

It is if your a Kuipers fan are and are hanging onto former glory.

 

[Scotty Mac]

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Right, so McGhee and the club were desperate for him to have the best chance possible. Why did he drop him after 4 games then?

Carpenter just goes on and on without getting dropped. He must have been given 44 games since his injury, and every one has been a festival of shit. So, why hasn't he been banished to the bench never to return?

goalkeeper is the most important position on the pitch - even more so in a relegation battle. we had a realistic chance of staying up at christmas, but kuipers came back and was off the pace. you can't afford to give him 10 games to find some form, as that is potentially 30 points dropped just to give him a chance, when you have henderson who has proved himself capable enough already. he had the chance to get form and confidence on-loan at boston, yet he came back and was disapointing. he was dropped after 4 games to give us a chance of staying up. unfortunately he then decided to transfer list himself, and basically rule himself out of participating for the rest of the season

as for carpenter, i agree he has to be dropped. i was just using him as a point that you can't go on recent glories to justify a players selection, it has to be there current form in matches, training and everything else that goes on at the club - unfortunately we only see them for 90 minutes a week, whereas wilkins has hours with them. he has proven he will give kuipers a chance by giving him games this season, but at this moment in time he obviously feels henderson is the better bet

lets just say it will be interesting to see how michel gets on in the senior cup quarter final against the mighty hassocks, should the reserves get past whitehwak first

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

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So you are saying that even if a player performs fantastically well in one game, he should be dropped the following week if someone else TRAINS well?

If one player trained woefully for two weeks, and an other trained fantastically, you would pick the better trainer for the match.

Man-Management is what it comes down to, something you in particular argue that Wilkins is particularly good at, especially when compared to McGhee. You trust his judgement don't you? So what is the problem?

One good game alone is not enough for a player to hold onto a first team place.

 

[Scotty Mac]

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He only lost his place because he was injured, at a time when he was performing amazingly well. In my book, that means he deserves a decent chance to find that form again when he is fit. He got four games. I know we were in a relegation battle, but it wasn't like Michel was costing us those matches he played in. He wasn't at his best I admit, but he was ok. My main argument is that he should have been given a lot longer in the team, and in time if his form hadn't improved then fair enough. But, I am sure it would.

im not debating that he deserved a run in the team, it just wasn't the right time. its just my thinking that carpenter got an extended run because he was short of match fitness, whereas michel got a good 4-6 games under his belt before coming back

his run would of come at the end of the season when it was pretty obvious we were sinking like the titanic, when giving him the games would of been no problem at all. its just a shame he didnt show his love and loyalty to the club by biding his time, understanding the situation as opposed to deciding he wanted to leave

if he had of been patient - as he was under roberts, and was then rewarded the next season with a chance - then things could of turned out very differently. unfortunately we will now never know, and i think it would be a shame that michels decision to go onto the list could cost him his place at the club come the end of the season should he not dislodge wayne from the team, as we cannot afford to pay his high wages for a number 2 keeper, especially with two seemingly very talented youngsters in martin and sullivan waiting in the wings

 

[chez]

Look whats the point in you arguing his case. He obviously isnt as good as henderson because both managers have had Henderson as their No.1. Kuipers aint a bad back up keeper I suppose, but you wouldnt want him as 1st choice (well I and pretty much every Brighton manager since his arrival wouldnt anyway). Lets just leave it at that, go with the managers decision - he's the manager because he knows more than us about football !!!

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

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What about if the one who supposedly was training worse had played several games in that period, including one tough away match in which he was pivotal in a win? I don't know how they train, and neither do you. The evidence is that our best goalkeeping performance of the season so far was Michel at Bradford. Unless he has REFUSED to train, then how can anything in the meantime warrant his dropping?

I'm not saying that i don't agree with anyone of that.

But clearly, Wilkins has his reasons. I'm willing to trust his judgement, as i'm certain that the likes of McGhee and Wilkins know more about the game than I do, certainly the goalkeeping position! At least ONE of Kuipers and/or Henderson did something in that fortnight period that convinced Wilkins that Henderson was the best bet. It could have been anything, from discipline, form, or even the way the defence plays in front of the two. If i was a betting man, it'd be something to do with the latter - Kuipers WAS great at Bradford, but we always looked like a vunerable team that might concede at any moment as far as i'm concerned. With Wayne in goal though, i don't think we look like conceding (even if we've leaked a lot of goals in recent games) often, and i'd hazard a GUESS that this is due to the defences preferance of Wayne in goal.

 

[Redhead]

Christ, this debate gets dug up every time we get turned over, Hendo wasn't at fault for any of the goals, we all know if Kuipers was playing the thread would be titled, Kuipers is a HERO and saved it being a massacre.

 

[chez]

Most Brighton managers haven't wanted him as first choice? Eh? How many games has Michel played for this club?

Loads, but for 3 reasons. Firstly coz he's been here so bloody long, secondly because he was 1st choice under Adams most of the time & 3rdly because unfortunately although we have had some excellent other keepers some have tended to be quite injury prone.