Head teacher abused in Croydon school gates smoking row

[Goldstone Rapper]

Balderdash! 'Within sight of the playing area' is an interpretation adopted by local authorities. Like many H&S 'rules' the myth is perpetuated by common practice, and guidance which is blindly followed without question.

The reality of all requirements is that they have to be interpreted.

However, given that you've offered no indication that you were aware of what the Statutory Framework was, it's rather disingenuous of you to state how you think it has been followed and with what level of discussion between settings, local authorities and OFSTED, especially as you're not party to those conversations.

I'm actually sympathetic to the view that there are many 'rules' based on misunderstandings or fear of litigation that aren't worth the paper they are written on. However, this is a contention that is only possibly made on a case by case basis rather than what you're doing, which is to apply it to everything.

 

[BadFish]

courteously phrased yes but that doesnt make it right or less manipulative. in fact it makes it more snidey in my eyes. she is putting pressure on people to do her will totally outside her jurisdiction simply because she holds a certain view.

Her view is perfectly reasonable and she is putting pressure on people to do something that common sense would deem obvious in order to improve the lives for the students in her care. Slap bang within her jurisdiction if you ask me.

 

[BigGully]

3.55 Providers must have a no smoking policy, and must prevent smoking in a room, or outside play area, where children are present or about to be present.

I think your interpretation of this to mean outside the school grounds as flawed, the 'play area' is likely to mean the playground where many schools disperse their children and obviously does not include the outside pavement or pathways.

The request seems reasonable to me, I would suspect that the area of congregation for school pick up is the area she wishes to effect, its probably outside of her jurisdiction, but should be adhered to by reasonable supportive parents.

However, I am not sure I would wish my own legal and quite reasonable activities to be monitored, assessed and sanctioned too far beyond the school gate.

 

[strings]

I'll stick my twopennies worth in. Judging from what has already been posted, the Head does have some responsibility outside of the School grounds. Conversely, she cannot prevent parents from smoking outside of the School grounds.

Therefore she has made a polite request, thus fulfilling her own responsibilities and also recognising that legally she cannot stop parents from smoking outside the School gates. I think her approach has been entirely reasonable.

 

[User removed 4]

At my son's school there was a bloke last year who tied his aggressive dog to the school railings at drop off time and then stood as close to the boundary as possible and lit up, blowing smoke down 4 year old lungs. Since both parents dropped off and picked up every run I'm guessing he wasn't running to and from work either. He was literally the only parent that did this.

Eventually a letter came out asking parents not to tie their dogs to the railings OR smoke near the younger kids. What did this enormously brave chav do? He stopped. And no one else backed him up.

I find it hilarious that the same people (wellquickwooody) who are the first to slam people for living on benefits cheer exactly the same people as libertarian heroes when the lazy snide f*****s can't go five minutes without a fag around four year olds.

Thats a massive assumption isn't it ? How do you know he wasnt working nights ? Why do you also assume that the Croydon parents are all on benefits , as you state when making another assumption about wellquickwoody? You go on to sneer at the ' enormously brave chav ' for complying with the letter from the school , why ? Pity you werent brave enough to ask him yourself , instead of acting like one of the ' snide f*****s ' as you referred to the croydon parents by merely whinging about him on a messageboard.

 

[The Spanish]

Her view is perfectly reasonable and she is putting pressure on people to do something that common sense would deem obvious in order to improve the lives for the students in her care. Slap bang within her jurisdiction if you ask me.

thats where we disagree. bet shes the sort of person who does over the top coughing and waving away of imaginary smoke in public. its hectoring and I Know Best. asking nicely doesnt make it right. yes smoking is dangerous and idiotic but I bet she hasnt told the parents or her teachers to stop driving their kids to school as the cars belch out utter filth.

i wouldnt smoke outside the school gate but its still very normal in our society for people to smoke, and as long as its not being blown in a kids face its doing almost zero harm. she is of the opinion children actually seeing people smoke is damaging for them and will set them on the road to ruin. that is total bollocks and hysterical and way way outside of anyones remit - currently. in my opinion.

 

[The Large One]

No mention of civil liberties, or human rights from me. Just the law.

Just because the law allows you to smoke in a public place, it doesn't mean you're obliged to.

But you're still missing the point.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Thats a massive assumption isn't it ? How do you know he wasnt working nights ?

Because he lives on the same road as me. Hasn't done a day's graft in his life.

Pity you werent brave enough to ask him yourself , instead of acting like one of the ' snide f*****s ' as you referred to the croydon parents by merely whinging about him on a messageboard.

The parents did ask him but it was only when the head did that he complied. As stated by Goldstone Rapper and others because it IS within her rights - indeed she MUST - ask him to desist.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The question I ask is 'When does a schoolteachers responsibility override the the law?'

The answer is that it does not. If you believe different then try a test case?

You are missing GreersElbow's point spectacularly. Are you really so stupid that when he even types it out explicitly it still sails over your head?

 

[The Large One]

You are right its not about civil liberties, its about the teachers again failing to understand that they must learn to be polite to their customers, no matter what you think of your customer. Its required in all professional environments. Not to worry tho, with schools starting to compete with each other, then you will learn, the hard way by losing your job when you lose custom. II say this and I don't smoke, and no doubt the customers were right plonkas, but teachers must start to learn to serve their customers for the good of the children and the parents who they are paid to serve. They will get there as free private schools get expanded and working class kids will soon get the same service that richer kids at private schools get.

 

[The Large One]

Not on a wind up. The teaching profession is self centred, self serving, inherently made up of mildly achieving middle class class people who seem to have an aversion to competing with each other so to drive up standards. The unions hate free schools but have seen that they drive up standards, they are running scared and now want more regulation in the hope it will put people off. The reason they hate them is that the schools will want to meet the demands of the customer to demand more for less and drive up standards. Those in the teaching profession who understand this will make significant money, those who dont, will hark back to the wonderful days of the 1970s comprehensive when they could turn up to work with strange hair and the NUT latest strike ballot under their arm whilst discussing what a lovely time they had had in the south of France over summer.

I really think you don't know what you're on about.

 

[The Fifth Column]

When I first read this story I pictured a bunch of hideously overweight munters in obscenely tight cameltoe inducing black leggings or skinny permatanned rough faced hags with hair scraped back all puffing away outside the school gates in their knock off Ugg boots, trapping off and putting the world to rights in a series of grunted swear words. The sort of feral human detritus that don't like to be asked to do anything, they take and want and need but rarely give anything useful back in return. This is a school in Croydon after all, and not a particularly good one at that. Politely asking them to not smoke at the school gates would be tantamount to calling them all slags and asking for a fight.

 

[BadFish]

thats where we disagree. bet shes the sort of person who does over the top coughing and waving away of imaginary smoke in public. its hectoring and I Know Best. asking nicely doesnt make it right. yes smoking is dangerous and idiotic but I bet she hasnt told the parents or her teachers to stop driving their kids to school as the cars belch out utter filth.

i wouldnt smoke outside the school gate but its still very normal in our society for people to smoke, and as long as its not being blown in a kids face its doing almost zero harm. she is of the opinion children actually seeing people smoke is damaging for them and will set them on the road to ruin. that is total bollocks and hysterical and way way outside of anyones remit - currently. in my opinion.

Fair enough, however even given this view surely you don't condone the abuse and petition part of the story?

If I was asked to do something I disagreed with like this I think my stance would be to either ignore the request and carry on the activity or to do what I could to accommodate it and understand another's point of view. In this case having a smoke before you pick the kids up and then waiting until you are home again, (or even away from the school gates) is hardly a big ask is it?

Like I said before the reaction to a reasonable and polite request is surely over the top however much you disagree with it?

 

[User removed 4]

Because he lives on the same road as me. Hasn't done a day's graft in his life.

The parents did ask him but it was only when the head did that he complied. As stated by Goldstone Rapper and others because it IS within her rights - indeed she MUST - ask him to desist.

I quite simply don't believe you , or you wouldn't have been ' guessing ' that he wasnt running to and from work.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

7 pages and national news headlines about a teacher politely asking parents to stop smoking outside a school. Speaks volumes about UK society.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I quite simply don't believe you , or you wouldn't have been ' guessing ' that he wasnt running to and from work.

Well he does. So there. You do know people talk to each other when situations like this occur right? 'I'm guessing' is a phrase often used in a humourous context to explain things to people who have no idea of the starting point of a situation. But then again you don't get humour.

 

[User removed 4]

Well he does. So there. You do know people talk to each other when situations like this occur right? 'I'm guessing' is a phrase often used in a humourous context to explain things to people who have no idea of the starting point of a situation. But then again you don't get humour.

Yes I know all of the above, and still dont believe you, I dont believe you would have used it in this context and you're merely using it to disguise the massively snobby assumption you made, as for the humour, I certainly dont get what you think passes for it , with most other people i'd think replying ' Well he does. So there. ' was a bit of a joke , with you I dont.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

When I first read this story I pictured a bunch of hideously overweight munters in obscenely tight cameltoe inducing black leggings or skinny permatanned rough faced hags with hair scraped back all puffing away outside the school gates in their knock off Ugg boots, trapping off and putting the world to rights in a series of grunted swear words. The sort of feral human detritus that don't like to be asked to do anything, they take and want and need but rarely give anything useful back in return. This is a school in Croydon after all, and not a particularly good one at that. Politely asking them to not smoke at the school gates would be tantamount to calling them all slags and asking for a fight.

That was my mental image regardless of the location (unfortunately)

 

[piersa]

It's none of her business.

I am pleased that you have firmly been put in your place.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes I know all of the above, and still dont believe you, I dont believe you would have used it in this context and you're merely using it to disguise the massively snobby assumption you made, as for the humour, I certainly dont get what you think passes for it , with most other people i'd think replying ' Well he does. So there. ' was a bit of a joke , with you I dont.

You think what you like. If disapproving of people smoking over 4 year olds and frightening them with their attack dog makes me a snob then I'll happily admit to it. The first of those two points being the real issue here. We'll see which one of us makes assumptions about people being on benefits the next time there's a Daily Mail thread.