Head teacher abused in Croydon school gates smoking row

[Barrel of Fun]

No mention of civil liberties, or human rights from me. Just the law.

It's legal to argue outside the school gate. It's legal to wear your pyjamas outside the school gate. It's legal to swear outside the school gate. It's legal to wrestle outside the school gate. It's legal to do all sorts of things outside the school gate.

She's making a kind request to light up elsewhere. I believe she is well within her rights to make that request.

Hiding behind the law is such a cop out. Just don't smoke.

Jesus.

Good points, some on here are bloody minded and would argue about the colour of orange juice!

It's sad, isn't it?

i think the clue is in his username - he's trying to be subtle about his inverted snobbery......

Private schools are not the enemy. Working Class Pride would do well to understand that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Because I do not wholly accept your view, however I have stated that I do think this request should be accepted by the parents and the alleged abuse is of course totally wrong..

Speaking as a non smoker I too would not expect a headteacher to encroach very far into my activities away from the school, the term 'school gates' is likely to be a broad sweep of a bigger area around the school rather than the actual entrance, so it can by some be deemed an unnecessary interference and outside of the schools jurisdiction anyway.

How can school gates be interpreted in any other way, apart from wanting an argument?

 

[GreersElbow]

It's legal to argue outside the school gate. It's legal to wear your pyjamas outside the school gate. It's legal to swear outside the school gate. It's legal to wrestle outside the school gate. It's legal to do all sorts of things outside the school gate.

She's making a kind request to light up elsewhere. I believe she is well within her rights to make that request.

Hiding behind the law is such a cop out. Just don't smoke.

Jesus.



It's sad, isn't it?



Private schools are not the enemy. Working Class Pride would do well to understand that.

It's even worse when there isn't a law that permits you to smoke, only prohibit where you can. Otherwise, smoking is a right. But conventions dictate whether it's acceptable, is smoking in front of a school gate acceptable? The general consensus is no, therefore a convention. But the real law is about the teacher's obligations regarding the welfare of their pupils.

No one seems to be thinking of the children, can we please think of the children?

 

[Working class pride]

It's not about civil liberties. It's not about human rights. It's about being a decent human being.[/QUOTE]

You are right its not about civil liberties, its about the teachers again failing to understand that they must learn to be polite to their customers, no matter what you think of your customer. Its required in all professional environments. Not to worry tho, with schools starting to compete with each other, then you will learn, the hard way by losing your job when you lose custom. II say this and I don't smoke, and no doubt the customers were right plonkas, but teachers must start to learn to serve their customers for the good of the children and the parents who they are paid to serve. They will get there as free private schools get expanded and working class kids will soon get the same service that richer kids at private schools get.

 

[The Spanish]

It's all about standards. She's making a polite request to cease from smoking on the perimeter of the school grounds.

I'm amazed that there are so many ****tards wishing to debate this topic, let alone offer support to the parents.

It's not about civil liberties. It's not about human rights. It's about being a decent human being.

were the parents puffing away outside decades ago not decent human beings?

that is utterly your moral compass. the teacher has a certain moral compass and she is very gently hectoring people into conforming to her will. no one ideally should smoke but people do and thousands of kids grow up totally unharmed by it. no doubt this woman is well intentioned and some parents are argumentative wan kers. but this moral shift where smoking in public is increasingly unacceptable is very recent. dont be surprised if people kick against it, arent up to speed or simply think its bollocks.

i hate the way in Britain very recent changes in social attitudes are rammed down the throat of those lagging behind slightly. its very shortsighted, unpleasant and immature.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Because I do not wholly accept your view, however I have stated that I do think this request should be accepted by the parents and the alleged abuse is of course totally wrong..

Speaking as a non smoker I too would not expect a headteacher to encroach very far into my activities away from the school, the term 'school gates' is likely to be a broad sweep of a bigger area around the school rather than the actual entrance, so it can by some be deemed an unnecessary interference and outside of the schools jurisdiction anyway.

What about if a head or teacher believed you to be mistreating your child? Does that cover your 'activities away from school'?

 

[BadFish]

It is not against the law to swear either, but if parents were swearing outside the primary school gates, I would hope the head would have a word too.

Good point, I am not sure how this discussion has ended up being about the law. The head teacher made a polite and reasonable request and copped a load of abuse for it. She did not bring the law into the discussion, she didn't tell people they had to stop she just made a polite request in the best interests of the students. The law, human rights and civil liberties are irrelevant here. This is about being able to deal with an issue without resorting to abuse.

Something sadly lacking in today's society echoed on NSC quite beautifully.

Really if parents can't leave their smoking for 20 minutes until they are away from the school they need to take a long hard look at themselves.

 

[clapham_gull]

These debates are hilarious.

Just the sort of thing that I would expect to happened years ago at my school. An old school approach to er.. School.

Except now you can twist it round to suit your respective argument and undermine your general approach to such arguments at the same time.

Those demanding "respect" being generally disrespectful. Those quoting freedom and human rights not so happy if they are "imposed" from Europe.

Does remind of Stewart Lee's gran and the banning of hot tea in the hairdressers as "political correctness gone mad".

 

[Guinness Boy]

At my son's school there was a bloke last year who tied his aggressive dog to the school railings at drop off time and then stood as close to the boundary as possible and lit up, blowing smoke down 4 year old lungs. Since both parents dropped off and picked up every run I'm guessing he wasn't running to and from work either. He was literally the only parent that did this.

Eventually a letter came out asking parents not to tie their dogs to the railings OR smoke near the younger kids. What did this enormously brave chav do? He stopped. And no one else backed him up.

I find it hilarious that the same people (wellquickwooody) who are the first to slam people for living on benefits cheer exactly the same people as libertarian heroes when the lazy snide f*****s can't go five minutes without a fag around four year olds.

 

[The Spanish]

It's even worse when there isn't a law that permits you to smoke, only prohibit where you can. Otherwise, smoking is a right. But conventions dictate whether it's acceptable, is smoking in front of a school gate acceptable? The general consensus is no, therefore a convention. But the real law is about the teacher's obligations regarding the welfare of their pupils.

No one seems to be thinking of the children, can we please think of the children?

is that a fact as well?

these parents appear to have only just been told. when did it become a convention? at what schools, where?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

were the parents puffing away outside decades ago not decent human beings?

that is utterly your moral compass. the teacher has a certain moral compass and she is very gently hectoring people into conforming to her will. no one ideally should smoke but people do and thousands of kids grow up totally unharmed by it. no doubt this woman is well intentioned and some parents are argumentative wan kers. but this moral shift where smoking in public is increasingly unacceptable is very recent. dont be surprised if people kick against it, arent up to speed or simply think its bollocks.

i hate the way in Britain very recent changes in social attitudes are rammed down the throat of those lagging behind slightly. its very shortsighted, unpleasant and immature.

Decades ago, it was considered common for women to smoke in the street.
Not common as in commonplace, but common as in chav.

 

[BigGully]

How can school gates be interpreted in any other way, apart from wanting an argument?

If you think the term school gates is a term solely for the 3 foot entrance then any interventions by the school would be worthless, it is a term widely used to describe the area around the school where there is a mix of children and parents.

Look we probably agree on this particular action, I just would prefer some perspective on this issue, its the abuse she later received that I found shocking.

 

[BN9 BHA]

It's all a bit mumsnet this conversation?!?!?

Wouldn't know about mumsnet, is it something you go on?

 

[BigGully]

What about if a head or teacher believed you to be mistreating your child? Does that cover your 'activities away from school'?

Dont be daft, its a poor comparison.

 

[Worthingite]

Just for all the people simulating horror, tomorrow I'm going to go and stand outside an unspecified school at kicking out time, smoking the biggest cigar I can find. Why? Because I can.

In all seriousness, I neither agree nor disagree with the story, I just find it mental the vitriol that is pouring out on here from both sides of the argument. I was only half joking when I said this is all a bit mumsnet....I did honestly wonder if I'd had some sort of brain burp and ended up on there??

 

[BadFish]

were the parents puffing away outside decades ago not decent human beings?

that is utterly your moral compass. the teacher has a certain moral compass and she is very gently hectoring people into conforming to her will. no one ideally should smoke but people do and thousands of kids grow up totally unharmed by it. no doubt this woman is well intentioned and some parents are argumentative wan kers. but this moral shift where smoking in public is increasingly unacceptable is very recent. dont be surprised if people kick against it, arent up to speed or simply think its bollocks.

i hate the way in Britain very recent changes in social attitudes are rammed down the throat of those lagging behind slightly. its very shortsighted, unpleasant and immature.

but she didn't she made a polite request, nothing rammed down anyones throat. If they disagree then that is their right they can carry on smoking. The abuse is unwarranted and necessary.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

You are right its not about civil liberties, its about the teachers again failing to understand that they must learn to be polite to their customers, no matter what you think of your customer. Its required in all professional environments. Not to worry tho, with schools starting to compete with each other, then you will learn, the hard way by losing your job when you lose custom. II say this and I don't smoke, and no doubt the customers were right plonkas, but teachers must start to learn to serve their customers for the good of the children and the parents who they are paid to serve. They will get there as free private schools get expanded and working class kids will soon get the same service that richer kids at private schools get.

Christ. I produced something more appetising when I vomited up a bottle of rum and a net of prawns on my 21st in Cuba.

I don't know where to begin, so I'll try...

Are all teachers impolite to their 'customers'? I've generally found that most parents are supportive of the teacher. You get the odd ball, but supportive none-the-less.

Polite?! Are you talking from personal experience or just being a prick?

Teaching is not an easy job or an easy option...

Screw that. You're clearly on a wind up. I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Jesus

Did he smoke too?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Did he smoke too?

Quite possibly. I'm yet to read an unabridged version of the Bible.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Just for all the people simulating horror, tomorrow I'm going to go and stand outside an unspecified school at kicking out time, smoking the biggest cigar I can find. Why? Because I can.

In all seriousness, I neither agree nor disagree with the story, I just find it mental the vitriol that is pouring out on here from both sides of the argument. I was only half joking when I said this is all a bit mumsnet....I did honestly wonder if I'd had some sort of brain burp and ended up on there??

Get back to mumsnet