Head teacher abused in Croydon school gates smoking row

[wellquickwoody]

Whilst I don't have any jurisdiction over the behaviour of parents on the street, I do have responsibility for the pupils' behaviour on their way to and from school.

"In the spirit of this I would respectfully ask that adults refrain from smoking immediately outside the school as some may see this as setting a bad example."

Do you really think this is apportioning blame on others or deserves abuse?

Stop being offended on others behalf, there is no abuse in that post.

I still stand by the duty of care argument. A teacher cannot legally be held responsible for what happens outside of the school gates.

 

[BadFish]

the day teachers are told to treat parents as 'clients' is the day the country is finally fked.

imagine an education system based on the corporate world. teaching outsourced to a call centre the third world or a post industrial british city. press 1 for history, 2 for geography...

the education ministry bought by a private equity firm and broken up in three years.

lets try and maintain at least some respect and dignity in this increasingly dignity free country.

this whole issue is caused by lack of respect on both sides.

oh that and a babyish shit stirring press and readership.

Where is the lack of respect from the Head Teacher? From the article she posted a quite respectful and reasonable request.

Agree with the rest of your post entirely.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Not quite sure why people are ignoring Goldstone rapper's post, but it's in the statutory framework, therefore, she has an obligation to enforce a policy. She's only requested so far, not enforced it. It's disgusting people are behaving this way, I am a smoker but smoking in front of kids is something I hate the idea of. If you want your children to have the healthiest lifestyle possible, smoking should be done out of view and most definitely out of view of school grounds. Given the attempts to advise children about their health and lifestyle choices, it's a slap in the face of those who try to get a healthier generation.


The main problem is now people are ignoring the fact there's a statute regarding this and have turned it into a moral issue. Arguments based on morality are subjective and last for an eternity, you can't argue about facts, only interpret them.

What bit of law do you not get? It is not illegal to smoke outside of a school, end.

 

[clapham_gull]

Interesting one.

I live near a school, no problem at all except the lads (and their out of school mates) used my front wall to have a cheeky smoke before school. Still no problem, except when I have to pick the butts up along with the crisp packets etc.. that are thrown into the front garden.

Well were. It stopped a while ago without my intervention. I remember school and my front wall is the first conveniently out of sight place to go from the front gate...but as we all know now, Teachers would just know.

I planted some spiky plants behind the wall which seems to have worked, but if it hadn't I guess I would have gone to the school, because I think it is their business.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What bit of law do you not get? It is not illegal to smoke outside of a school, end.

Which 'bit' of post #6 did you not get?

There are some real morons on this site at times.

 

[BadFish]

Stop being offended on others behalf, there is no abuse in that post.

I still stand by the duty of care argument. A teacher cannot legally be held responsible for what happens outside of the school gates.

The article is about the fact that she got abused after asking people to stop smoking at the school gates (it is ridiculous that you would have to ask IMHO)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Stop being offended on others behalf, there is no abuse in that post.

I still stand by the duty of care argument. A teacher cannot legally be held responsible for what happens outside of the school gates.

You can't read properly. Post 6 has already pointed out the legality of the situation.
Secondly, I wasn't offended in any way. I said the head teacher received abuse for her request, not that there was abuse in your post.

 

[fataddick]

No-one should smoke if they have kids aged between 0 and 14. They should either give up smoking over those years or have theirs kids put into care.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Statutory framework....doesn't include public roads. School grounds are non-smoking; statutory framework stops at the gates.

This welfare requirement does actually cover the outside area beyond school gates.

 

[BigGully]

I think its a reasonable request, something that any decent parent should adhere to.

I do however think that any teacher should not too willingly impose her own world view into any legal activities of a parent away from the school.

I do wonder if this is a reflection of an overbearing Headteacher that might be driven by a political or even a religious agenda, the consequence being her being unreasonably intrusive in other things.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No-one should smoke if they have kids aged between 0 and 14. They should either give up smoking over those years or have theirs kids put into care.

Now there's an overreaction for you.
I haven't smoked for 22 years now, but managed to bring up 2 healthy kids, neither of whom smoke.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think its a reasonable request, something that any decent parent should adhere to.

I do however think that any teacher should not too willingly impose her own world view into any legal activities of a parent away from the school.

I do wonder if this is a reflection of an overbearing Headteacher that might be driven by a political or even a religious agenda, the consequence being her being unreasonably intrusive in other things.

Where is she imposing her view away from the school?

 

[GreersElbow]

What bit of law do you not get? It is not illegal to smoke outside of a school, end.

I understand criminal law fairly well, if that helps answer your question. You know statutory means legislation which means law. http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/EYFS-Statutory-Framework-2012.pdf Page 24. The questions you should be answering is when does the Teacher obligations end, is that difficult to comprehend?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I think its a reasonable request, something that any decent parent should adhere to.

I do however think that any teacher should not too willingly impose her own world view into any legal activities of a parent away from the school.

I do wonder if this is a reflection of an overbearing Headteacher that might be driven by a political or even a religious agenda, the consequence being her being unreasonably intrusive in other things.

No. Whatever her personal opinion, the head is legally required to adhere to the welfare requirements of the Statutory Framework of the EYFS, which clearly state:

3.55 Providers must have a no smoking policy, and must prevent smoking in a room, or outside play area, where children are present or about to be present.

 

[fataddick]

Now there's an overreaction for you.
I haven't smoked for 22 years now, but managed to bring up 2 healthy kids, neither of whom smoke.

People presumably didn't know when you had your kids what they know now about smoking. I'm not suggesting this retrospectively. Just saying that today, in 2013, anyone with children who continues to smoke is committing (a form of) child abuse, and should be regarded accordingly. IMHO.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

People presumably didn't know when you had your kids what they know now about smoking. I'm not suggesting this retrospectively. Just saying that today, in 2013, anyone with children who continues to smoke is committing (a form of) child abuse, and should be regarded accordingly. IMHO.

We have known smoking causes cancer since I was a kid in the fifties. I grew up with both my parents smoking, in fact my Dad died of lung cancer aged 78.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

the day teachers are told to treat parents as 'clients' is the day the country is finally fked.

imagine an education system based on the corporate world. teaching outsourced to a call centre the third world or a post industrial british city. press 1 for history, 2 for geography...

the education ministry bought by a private equity firm and broken up in three years.

lets try and maintain at least some respect and dignity in this increasingly dignity free country.

this whole issue is caused by lack of respect on both sides.

oh that and a babyish shit stirring press and readership.

That day arrived for the rich with private and international schools years ago. Thankfully that day is now arriving for everyone else soon. Teachers will understand that they know when they get things wrong because that is when their schools fail to attract custom and they lose their job. They will know when they have done something right when their schools are packed and they are making money.

I think you have a warped idea of private education. Of course, parents are going to expect so much, since they pay extra for their children to be educated, but, in my experience, it has never been about client/customer.

If anything, it's about paying for opportunities and longer school hours.

Having just teacher trained, state schools manage to fit in about 3 hours of learning, give or take. Private schools manage to squeeze in 6 hours, plus evening school.

 

[BadFish]

I think its a reasonable request, something that any decent parent should adhere to.

I do however think that any teacher should not too willingly impose her own world view into any legal activities of a parent away from the school.

I do wonder if this is a reflection of an overbearing Headteacher that might be driven by a political or even a religious agenda, the consequence being her being unreasonably intrusive in other things.

I think it is obvious that she is a muslim who is trying to install Sharia law into the school and outside it's gates. i also wonder if the school is not a terrorist training camp.

 

[BigGully]

Where is she imposing her view away from the school?

I havent said that she has, my point was that someones actions on something like smoking that is legal and I have yet to hear of this stance happening at other schools MIGHT offer a reflection into a more overbearing intrusive role by a headteacher.beyond this reasonable request.

Its Croydon and its smoking so there is an obvious prejudice where intervention is obviously required, already the non smoking brigade are ready to march !!!

I speak as a 'never smoker' and married to a errrr headteacher.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I understand criminal law fairly well, if that helps answer your question. You know statutory means legislation which means law. http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/EYFS-Statutory-Framework-2012.pdf Page 24. The questions you should be answering is when does the Teacher obligations end, is that difficult to comprehend?

The question I ask is 'When does a schoolteachers responsibility override the the law?'

The answer is that it does not. If you believe different then try a test case?