Head teacher abused in Croydon school gates smoking row

[The Large One]

that is the entire issue, this is why she issued her request. any other debates are tangents.

No, it's not the entire issue.

Where is the bit in the article about children not being able to handle seeing people smoke - and how do you know this was the reason behind her request?

BG introduced it to justify his point, but it's a point that's different from the original one being made.

 

[DJ Leon]

where on earth do you get that from.

I may have misunderstood then, you don't think she should be able to make such a request? About what happens outside her school gates as children leave?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Surely, she is trying to get the best environment for the kids to be educated in. So what's wrong with politely asking parents not to smoke, drink, swear, double park, speed, threaten one another/their children/teachers and refrain from generally giving children poor examples in the area immediately around the school.

Unless as a parent, you want your children to indulge in some or all of the above i can't see why you wouldn't agree.

 

[The Spanish]

No, it's not the entire issue.

Where is the bit in the article about children not being able to handle seeing people smoke - and how do you know this was the reason behind her request?

BG introduced it to justify his point, but it's a point that's different from the original one being made.

"In the spirit of this I would respectfully ask that adults refrain from smoking immediately outside the school as some may see this as setting a bad example."

who is the 'some', as well. bloody hell its mealy mouthed. she is hardly miss jean brodie is she.

come out with some chalk draw a semi circle on the pave ment 10 yards around the gate and say right its my school no one smokes here. bet no one calls you a cnt on twitter then.

 

[WATFORD zero]

she is hardly miss jean brodie is she.

I've no idea, but i do know that she is someone who is seen at being exceptionally good at her job. So good, in fact, that she is parachuted into failing schools to try and turn them round. And if i was her, and got treated like this i would say '**** the little chavs and their repulsive parents' and leave them to sink into their self induced pit.

(I've often wondered whether i have the patience to succeed in the teaching profession ? )

*edit* And if the parents put as much effort into helping their little darlings with their homework as they did into putting abusive messages on Facebook and organising Smoking pickets, the school may not be failing in the first place.

 

[c0lz]

NO no you're missing the point, it was never a comparison, it was a discussion point regarding what's the law or what's morally right/responsible, relax and join the debate

Sorry not missing the point you brought a drink debate into it by trying to compare the two, neither are against the law but morally they are both wrong.

 

[Guinness Boy]

that is the entire issue, this is why she issued her request. any other debates are tangents.

No it's the bit of the issue that you can use to most easily justify your stance on the whole thing. And for the record I agree with you.

However with regards to the OP the salient points are the firstly the abuse on Facebook. Why abuse someone for doing their job? This in only acceptable if that job is refereeing an Albion match and your name is Andy D'Urso. Secondly it's the 'smoking picket'. "Look kids, smoking's great and we're going to intimidate you until you agree".

My post was then about a specific example at my school where there are over 100 parents and only one of them in unable to a) control himself and b) respond to being politely asked by other parents - the bravery of his stance being shown up when he stopped after being publicly shamed - a situation it did not need to get to.

 

[EDS]

Why the fooking hell they cannot wait ten minutes and not smoke near the school is beyond me, but to then go further and start a whole load of shite because of it, just equates to a bunch of scumbags with fook all better to do

 

[The Large One]

"In the spirit of this I would respectfully ask that adults refrain from smoking immediately outside the school as some may see this as setting a bad example."

who is the 'some', as well. bloody hell its mealy mouthed. she is hardly miss jean brodie is she.

come out with some chalk draw a semi circle on the pave ment 10 yards around the gate and say right its my school no one smokes here. bet no one calls you a cnt on twitter then.

In this instance - 'see' is used in an abstract manner (dictionary - 'discern or deduce mentally after reflection or from information; understand), rather than a physical one (dictionary - 'perceive with the eyes; discern visually').

The statement says 'some may see this as a bad example...'. You've interpreted that as 'children will be traumatised by seeing people smoke'. So where has this leap of imagination come from?

 

[The Spanish]

No it's the bit of the issue that you can use to most easily justify your stance on the whole thing. And for the record I agree with you.

However with regards to the OP the salient points are the firstly the abuse on Facebook. Why abuse someone for doing their job? This in only acceptable if that job is refereeing an Albion match and your name is Andy D'Urso. Secondly it's the 'smoking picket'. "Look kids, smoking's great and we're going to intimidate you until you agree".

My post was then about a specific example at my school where there are over 100 parents and only one of them in unable to a) control himself and b) respond to being politely asked by other parents - the bravery of his stance being shown up when he stopped after being publicly shamed - a situation it did not need to get to.

hahahahaha

 

[Birdie Boy]

apologies for taking this off track a bit and it's purely hypothetical (I promise) but i'm intreged by this 'off school property'/none of her business etc. What if I was standing at the school gate (in the public street) every afternoon at 3pm putting away a can of Special Brew? [EDIT waiting to collect my OWN child!]now providing there was no by law preventing street drinking, I was compus mentus (spelling? you know what I mean) and was causing no harm (i.e keeping my mouth shut) This scenario has the benefit that I'm not "blowing smoke into a four year olds lungs". What would be the outcome here?

Firstly you are standing at the school gates which I believe most (except probably anybody with W in their poster name) have agreed that this is within the schools jurisdiction. So, the hypothetical head could ask you to refrain from smoking. The hypothetical fact that you are on your own drinking Special Brew and smoking would probably not bother most parents or the head. If you were with 30 of your hypothetical mates drinking Special Brew and all smoking, then yes I suspect the parents and/or head would ask you to stop.

 

[Birdie Boy]

They'd also let you happily take the kid home if you were sober even if you then downed an 8 pack of Spesh the second you got in.

I believe that if the head knew about your behavior they would inform the social services otherwise they would be neglecting their duty to the child. The heads that let you happily behave like this would most likely not know about your drinking!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Surely, she is trying to get the best environment for the kids to be educated in. So what's wrong with politely asking parents not to smoke, drink, swear, double park, speed, threaten one another/their children/teachers and refrain from generally giving children poor examples in the area immediately around the school.

Unless as a parent, you want your children to indulge in some or all of the above i can't see why you wouldn't agree.

That sums it up quite nicely, for me.

Why the fooking hell they cannot wait ten minutes and not smoke near the school is beyond me, but to then go further and start a whole load of shite because of it, just equates to a bunch of scumbags with fook all better to do

And that.

 

[Birdie Boy]

of course i am very much in favour of backing teachers publicly - at least in front of children. the behaviour towards this woman is disgusting.

the request is at first glance polite - reasonable is another thing entirely. she is passive aggressively imposing her will and personal beliefs. its an incredibly frustrating and underhand tactic. and it takes people in, as amply demonstrated here.

How do you know what her personal beliefs are? Do you know for a fact whether she is a smoker or not? She may well be a smoker, I don't know, and she is just protecting the kids...

 

[BigGully]

Personally I would prefer the local head of my secondary school to ban her pupils from smoking at the school gates when I am trying to enter ......

 

[drew]

i have repeated many times on this thread that i am fully aware of the dangers of smoking. got a number of black suits hanging up to bear that out mate.

you dont come close to a coherent argument, what has her will got to do with medical theory? i am criticising her for imposing her will, not for the fact of whether she is right its bad for your health. her argument is one removed from an immediate health issue, rather its a 'bad example'. if you cant follow these points and basically revert to a smokings bad so anything anti smoking is immediately correct standpoint, and struggle with anything more abstract, then this will get even more tedious than it already is very quickly.

You've totally lost me. You said she was imposing her will on the smokers. I am merely pointing out that she is reflecting generally accepted principles, ie smoking is bad for you, as is passive smoking and therefore you want to dissuade as many youngsters as you can from becoming an addict hence the fact she, as do many others, think that parents shouldn't be smoking in front of children. She is not saying give up smoking because it is bad for you, she is saying do what you can to help stop kids thinking smoking is ok.

bloody hell big gully thank fu ck someone sees this for what it is.

all the amateur rumpoles and anti smoking fundamentalists and think of the children brigade please read big gullys post a couple of times.

if you believe that a currently popular stance on an activity such as smoking in public can be used to make a psuedo-official request from a position of authority, just because you are against that activity and hold an unscientific view that it could influence a child (that smoking may be bad for you is not really open to scientific debate, but believing a child seeing someone smoking in the street may encourage a 4 year old to commence smoking 10 years later, certainly is...), then come out and say it.

That seems a massive swerve, assuming I'm reading your first line correctly. Not sure I've seen too much condemnation of the parents abuse by you as most of your emphasis has been on your perception that the Head overstepped the mark!

What is your problem with not wanting children to smoke? I love the phrase 'a currently popular stance' as if smoking is going to become socially acceptable as it was 50 years ago. Also, how do you know the Head doesn't smoke? She may well do but exercises discretion where she smokes. There are plenty of doctors who know the risk and still smoke but they will still give advice to patients about not smoking. Also, why is it unscientific? Are you suggesting there have been no studies into whether children are influenced by what they see others doing?

As for BigGully's post, I think most of us are fully aware of the issue being about setting a bad example it just that one or two posters started banging on about the Head and how they perceived she was interfering with the rights of the parents!

 

[Nibble]

On a blog? She needs to assert herself not sit posting pleading nonsense on a blog. Daft cow.

 

[Birdie Boy]

Just picked my four year old up from school and saw a chav wearing a bright yellow Dunlop shell suit riding a bike on the pavement with a cigarette in one hand and a can of Special Brew in the other with no hands on the handle bars narrowly missing the lollipop lady shouting "com'on Chelsea, happy hour is on at the pub!" to his 4 year old! She hopped on the back of the bike and off they shot through the red lights! I don't know what the Head thought of it!

 

[c0lz]

On a blog? She needs to assert herself not sit posting pleading nonsense on a blog. Daft cow.

lol She wrote on the school's blog:

 

[Nibble]

lol She wrote on the school's blog:

Yes. I know. A blog.