Gordon Brown Labour Speech - Sickening

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I look at it like this...

HOW CAN IT GET ANY WORSE?

NHS: f***ed.
Transport: f***ed.
Trying to be Self employed: impossible
Council Tax: ridiculous
Inheritance Tax: Disgrace
Buying a home: impossible.
Getting benefits for doing f*** all: Nice and easy

I wanna see what change is like, then maybe I'll be proved wrong... but I very much doubt it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

ok, say your idea actually works....i.e we all pay the same for 'services provided'. Can you tell me why in the South West (where wages are considerably less than in the South East, that they pay nearly double the amount for their water bills....after all, water is water, we should all pay the same ? ?

A very fair point ( although it's not part of the council tax ! ). Everyone should pay the same for the supply of water - it is a commodity that everyone should have by RIGHT. All properties should be equiped with water meters and the price per unit ( whatever that unit is ) should be the same countrywide. That way everyone will pay the same unit price but will be charged for what they use. Unfortunately it isn't possible to measure how much "service" someone uses from the council tax so the poll tax is fairer ( note the word fairer not necessarily fair ! ). Maybe weighing rubbish and charging per pound would be even fairer ( although the volume is actually more important ). The Council Tax is linked to the value of the property which has bugger all correlation to the amount of "service" used and so is very very unfair.

 

[Simster]

If anything we get value from our low rate of tax. We have family in France who are forever grumbling about their SHITHOUSE health service. In France, you pay for healthcare when you need it, and then claim it back. As you can imagine, the process for getting it back is shabby and half the time isn't worth the trouble. Oh, and waiting times are no better either.

 

[ROSM]

I look at it like this...

HOW CAN IT GET ANY WORSE?

NHS: f***ed.
Transport: f***ed.
Trying to be Self employed: impossible
Council Tax: ridiculous
Inheritance Tax: Disgrace
Buying a home: impossible.
Getting benefits for doing f*** all: Nice and easy

I wanna see what change is like, then maybe I'll be proved wrong... but I very much doubt it.

That's a mixed bag there. Anybody who thinks that the NHS is worse now than it was 11 years ago is living incloud cuckoo land. Is it as good as it could be? NO, is it safer under a conservative government? absolutely NOT.

Transport - interesting because a lot of the concerns around transprt are because people are wedded to private car use. Will the tories reverse that? What about bus travel and train travel. I pay a lot for that but is it awful? was ite better before privatisation and deregulation?

There have been more tax breaks for people starting businesses in the last 8 years than ever before.

Buying a home -= wait a few months and they'll be nice and affordable. Just like they were during the last prices slump in the early 90s under a conservative government

Getting benefits for doing rock all - what a myth that is.

 

[Simster]

I look at it like this...

HOW CAN IT GET ANY WORSE?

NHS: f***ed.
Transport: f***ed.
Trying to be Self employed: impossible
Council Tax: ridiculous
Inheritance Tax: Disgrace
Buying a home: impossible.
Getting benefits for doing f*** all: Nice and easy

I wanna see what change is like, then maybe I'll be proved wrong... but I very much doubt it.

NHS - could be improved as has been the case for 40 years.
Transport - agreed. Although at least Labour have invested in the railways. Why the f*** nobody looks at our waterways I'll never know
Trying to be self employed?: clearly NOT impossible. I should know, I've been self employed for 12 years
Council tax: ridiculous. Arguable IMO
Inheritance tax: disgrace. Not really, no.
Buying a home: impossible. Totally agree - crap Labour policies to blame
Getting benefits for doing f*** all: Absolute SHIT, but funny how the same TWATS who insist this is the case want to more or less do away with inheritance tax. So you want a free handout off the back of your parents hard work, but others who get a pittance from the state are deemed as scroungers. That is the disgrace.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Getting benefits for doing f*** all: Absolute SHIT, but funny how the same TWATS who insist this is the case want to more or less do away with inheritance tax. So you want a free handout from your parents but others who get a pittance from the state are deemed as scroungers. That is the disgrace.

Money that has already been taxed at least ONCE. And besides, most of it is money that is attached to the value of the family home. The home is only worth what someone will pay for it yet inheritance tax is based on the value of the property as VALUED rather than sold.

 

[User removed 4]

Not sure I agree there Buzz, the average salary for a Chartered Accountant here in the UK is £86k, and I'm on a fraction of that I can assure you.

wouldnt it be sensible to get a job in the private sector ?

 

[User removed 4]

And of course there are absolutly no other taxes abroad are there? As I say, the tax in this country is lower than comparable Western european countries.

income tax or the tax burden as a whole ?

 

[User removed 4]

If. Oh, and waiting times are no better either.

bollocks , plain and simple.

 

[Simster]

Money that has already been taxed at least ONCE.

So what? If that money had been spent instead of saved, it too would probably have been taxed a second time in the form of VAT. The fact that it has already been taxed is COMPLETELY irrelevant, IMO.

And besides, most of it is money that is attached to the value of the family home. The home is only worth what someone will pay for it yet inheritance tax is based on the value of the property as VALUED rather than sold.

I do agree with this. I believe the law needs tweaking here. The person inheriting the funds should be given the option to pass the inheritance to an appointed solicitor acting as a custodian, and then pay tax on it only when sold at the sale price.

However, this is hardly "a disgrace". A disgrace would be to entirely abolish inheritance tax.

 

[Simster]

bollocks , plain and simple.

Sorry, but no it isn't. We have relatives who live in Nice and this is a FACT. I know you're cross because the FACTS don't fit your opinion but that's your problem.

 

[sten_super]

A disgrace would be to entirely abolish inheritance tax.

Why would that be a disgrace? I'm genuinely interested in your answer, as someone who holds a completely opposing view.

 

[User removed 4]

Getting benefits for doing f*** all: Absolute SHIT, but funny how the same TWATS who insist this is the case want to more or less do away with inheritance tax. So you want a free handout off the back of your parents hard work, but others who get a pittance from the state are deemed as scroungers. That is the disgrace.

i know people whos mortgage has been paid for literally years and he hasnt worked in all that time ( well he has in the black economy) so you are talking shit. and f***ing right i want the money from my parents hard work and they want me to have it too , not some f***ing champagne socialist like you to decide where the fruits of their years of work should go.

 

[London Calling]

As it costs exactly the same to collect each house single wheelie bin, as both want to be able to contact the police anytime they need, as they both may want to use the library, as they both want to walk down clean lit streets - I'd say yes, it is fair they both pay an equal tax ( although my elderly couple may get help via means testing ).

When I purchase a service, say plumber, he does charge me on the value of my house or on how much I earn - he charges me the price for the service. Exactly how a local service tax should work and the Poll Tax is the closest thing we've ever had to that.

Don't forget the fairest system is a local income tax.

I personally, would move a large proportion of the tax collection back to and staying in a local area.

Basically nearly all services we receive are managed and delivered locally, whether its the Council, NHS, Police.

So why is it, that our taxes go up to Whitehall, who then decides what services and the quality we receive.

Put the tax burden to the local level, With only national interests: Defence etc, taxes to be collected and remaining nationally.

Then have a local income tax, the fairest most equitable tax and old granny - who has no or little taxable income doesn't starve to pay her tax.

 

[User removed 4]

Sorry, but no it isn't. We have relatives who live in Nice and this is a FACT. I know you're cross because the FACTS don't fit your opinion but that's your problem.

sorry yes it is , my sister lives in france , and unfortunately her boyfriend was ill earlier this year , not a waiting list in sight, its labour spin like you try to peddle that doesnt fit the facts.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

So you want a free handout off the back of your parents hard work, but others who get a pittance from the state are deemed as scroungers. That is the disgrace.

Shame you were talking some sense until this point. Benefits should be for people who need them definitely, I don't argue that. BUT yes I do think that if my Mum and Dad have worked their arse off all their lives paying tax for 60 years that they should be able to die knowing that the home they've worked for and own, is going to be mine when they go. Not the states, not anyone elses, but mine. I aggree with taking perhaps a small percentage from very large estates but anything over 350,000?? that's the price of an average semi in Hove!

The fact that if my parents decided to get run over by a bus today I'd have to sell the house I've lived in all my life because I couldn't afford it is a digrace...

All I know is that we're not in the best place (and haven't been) for a while. So I'd like to see what difference another government could make.

 

[Highfields Seagull]

When I purchase a service, say plumber, he does charge me on the value of my house or on how much I earn - he charges me the price for the service. Exactly how a local service tax should work and the Poll Tax is the closest thing we've ever had to that.

Except that local taxation is not a local service charge. The examples you quote (e.g waste collection and the like) are not the big spend areas in local government.

Large amounts of local reveune are spent on things like education and social services. I.e. providing for our children so that they are equipped for the future, providing assistance for the vulnerable in society etc.

Although not perfect I'd rather live in a society which helps the less fortunate and looks after its children, than one where 'I'm alright Jack' is the order of the day.

 

[Albion Dan]

I look at it like this...

HOW CAN IT GET ANY WORSE?

I think that's the attitude that got Adolf Hitler voted into Germany in the 30's!

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

i know people whos mortgage has been paid for literally years and he hasnt worked in all that time ( well he has in the black economy) so you are talking shit. and f***ing right i want the money from my parents hard work and they want me to have it too , not some f***ing champagne socialist like you to decide where the fruits of their years of work should go.

Surely any excess monies in estates should go the the government to give to everyone who has loads of kids and / or does not work.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Except that local taxation is not a local service charge. The examples you quote (e.g waste collection and the like) are not the big spend areas in local government.

Large amounts of local reveune are spent on things like education and social services. I.e. providing for our children so that they are equipped for the future, providing assistance for the vulnerable in society etc.

Although not perfect I'd rather live in a society which helps the less fortunate and looks after its children, than one where 'I'm alright Jack' is the order of the day.

A balance is needed isn't it or whats the point in ever aspiring to achieve anything from your own efforts.