Good news and bad news.

[Simster]

She was right about the Falklands and a top lady when she stood on Brighton Beach in her nightie after being bombed and said we would never give in to the terrorists.
It will be a sad day when she passes on, oh how we cry out for someone like her now rather than Bush's lapdog.

Eh? She was the ULTIMATE American poodle.

 

[Harty]

Or was she, one thing is for sure she hated the f***ing French and the krauts which makes her top of my charts.
Ian Hart News at Ten extremeley pissed!!!!!!!!!

 

[sir danny cullip]

Ian Hart News at Ten extremeley pissed!!!!!!!!!

Ian...its nearly 1am rather than 10 pm

 

[El Presidente]

Or was she, one thing is for sure she hated the f***ing French and the krauts which makes her top of my charts.
Ian Hart News at Ten extremeley pissed!!!!!!!!!

Make sure you let FRUITY and SEB know you are right behind them

 

[Harty]

Not me but Mrs T, mother of the queen of the jungle no less.

Good night all..............

 

[sir danny cullip]

Make sure you let FRUITY and SEB know you are right behind them

Could it be a public french apology on SCR?!

 

[El Presidente]

Could it be a public french apology on SCR?!

I think IAN should do it in FRENCH to show his sincerity, but can still stick it to the KRAUTS and ARGIES (until EL Turi gets into the first team............. )

 

[NMH]

I have no time for Thatcher, she cynically started a war as a last gasp attempt to win an election, and the sinking of The Belgrano was an embarrasment for this nation.

If the Falklands had been handed over peacefully your friends and relatives would have been unaffected. Currently the Falklands costs the taxpayer wasted millions every month.

I can't stand thatcher, but allowing a military dictator of Argentina to take ANYTHING off us by force would send an awful message to every country we are protectorate for - and tell the World that military aggression is the way to treat our territories.
Churchill or Chamberlain? Which would you have voted into power for their actions after Poland was invaded by nazis?

 

[London Irish]

It will be a sad day when she passes on, oh how we cry out for someone like her now rather than Bush's lapdog.

You talking about REAGAN's LAPDOG by any chance, Harty?

 

[London Irish]

So I think I can guess your views on Gibralta. What is the threshold in terms of people then? The population of Kent or Yorkshire? We cede the scilly Isles to the first invaders or the Isle of Wight? Didn't Chamberlain try that negotiating away as well? You could apply the same philosophy to, say, the NHS. Sorry, they already do.


Crap argument - try harder next time.

Why do even bother to engage in these childish arguments? Yorkshire, Kent and the Scilly Isles are part of the soveriegn territory of this country. The Falklands are many, many thousands of miles away from here and geographically are adjacent to Argentina, hence soveriegnty has always been a matter of legitimate dispute.

This was so much the case that both Conservative and Labour governments of the 1970s were moving towards a rational resolution of the dispute with negotiations on the eventual transfer of sovereignty after a period of confidence-building measures.

Who honestly believes these barren islands should be ruled by the UK other than infantile Empire loyalists who like to close their eyes and still believe they are living in the 19th century?

Yes, you are absolutely right, I couldn't care less who ruled Gibralter, whether it is Spain or the UK. Does anyone believe the lives of the Gibraltarians would be any different now in the 21st century if either ruled it? Both Spain and Britain are modern, liberal democracies. European institutions are making these petty little nationalistic squabbles totally obsolete anyway.

Your imperial logic with regard to the Falklands is that you gladly sacrificed the lives of up to 1,500 young men to safeguard a dubious territorial claim and the flag under which a community of a mere 1,800 can live. 1,500 dead so 1,800 can salute one particular flag? You place no value on the lives of these serviceman if you support pointless bloodshed like that.

Let's have a moment of truth - the lives of those serviceman who died in that war were totally wasted. It will not be long, perhaps just another generation, before Argentinian and British politicians will once again resume the soveriegnty talks of the 1970s. Britain has no long-term economic, strategic or other interest in investing in the Falklands, that burden will eventually be passed to a nation that genuinely wants it more - Argentina.

 

[Yorkie]

It's funny how as someone who was a victim of a marriage break-up yourself, you should be so callous to the effect that redundancy has on family life. Because of the terrible strain the lack of money has on family life, divorces rocketed massively in communities affected by large-scale job losses - it's just that the rises in suicide rates, in alcoholism, of crime rates, of drug-taking have all tended to hog the headlines.

They just seem to be statistics to you, you don't seem to connect to the fact that there was real people suffering because of deliberate political act by Thatcher to collapse the economy and "discipline" the labour market. And because you know someone who was happy that his job was sold so that the next generation could never have it, somehow you think those who did suffer brought the fate on themselves? Very hard.

I didn't see much evidence of it in either South or West Yorkshire.
I know of a face worker who was made redundant. Got a job in Unwins wine shops, worked his way up to be a manager and is now a manager in a builders merchant earning good money now.
I know of Falkland Islanders who are eternally grateful that they can live the way they want to, not the way some politicians decide their islands should be run.

I don't make sweeping generlisations about either of these situations. I know people and how it affected them.
It doesn't tie up with how a lot of people remember the situations. That is all.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Hmmmm....

This thread seems the perfect place to introduce NSC to the work of one of the greatest but least known song writing partnerships of the past ten years. A fearless duo who took on the world of politics and society in general with their powerful, insightful, thought provoking polemics. Their career was shortlived. So shortlived in fact that they only got round to buying a bass guitar and recording two songs on a computer- 'Bob Carolgees',The peerless ode to 80's T.V superstar Bob Carolgee's and 'The Laid Back Jazz Song', which was, frankly, shit and precipitated the end of the great duo.

Welcome, then, NSC to the awe-inspiring world of 'Penguins In The Desert'.

'Thatcher Was A Man'

Thatcher was a man
Thatcher was a man
Do you understand
Thatcher was a man

She closed down the pits
and did other bad shit
all for the conservaTITS

Thatcher was a man
She had a hairy hand
Do you understand?
Thatcher was a man

 

[El Presidente]

I can't stand thatcher, but allowing a military dictator of Argentina to take ANYTHING off us by force would send an awful message to every country we are protectorate for - and tell the World that military aggression is the way to treat our territories.
Churchill or Chamberlain? Which would you have voted into power for their actions after Poland was invaded by nazis?

Fair enough, but to compare 50 guano salesmen planting an Argentinian flag is not the same as the genocide caused by Hitler that ALL politicians in the UK turned a blind eye to in the 1930's.

In 1977, when a similar invasion of the Falklands occurred, the government dealt with the issue quietly and effectively, and without the unnecessary loss of life. Thatcher failed where Callaghan succeeded, and it was her abandonment of the Falklands in the first place that lead the ARGIES to think they could nip in.

 

[Harty]

Sobered up, apologies to Frogs everywhere, but I still admired Mrs T for her stand against the IRA in the wake of the Brighton bomb.

 

[El Presidente]

Sobered up, apologies to Frogs everywhere, but I still admired Mrs T for her stand against the IRA in the wake of the Brighton bomb.

To be fair, she was hardly going to turn around and say "It's time to unite the Emerald Isle" whilst drinking a pint of Guinness and carrying a pig under her arm though, after the carnage they caused.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Fair enough, but to compare 50 guano salesmen planting an Argentinian flag is not the same as the genocide caused by Hitler that ALL politicians in the UK turned a blind eye to in the 1930's.

In 1977, when a similar invasion of the Falklands occurred, the government dealt with the issue quietly and effectively, and without the unnecessary loss of life. Thatcher failed where Callaghan succeeded, and it was her abandonment of the Falklands in the first place that lead the ARGIES to think they could nip in.

Op Journeyman, and the Argentines were deterred by the presence of a nuclear sub. The only "quiet" bit about it was that we didn't tell them about an exclusion zone officially, but they were informed that a nuclear sub was in the area. That time they left. Callaghan only delayed the inevitable.

As for keeping it in the exclusion zone, don't forget about the team of Argentines that were sent to Gibraltar to sink a ship, and our little sortie into Chile. No such thing as an exclusion zone in reality.

The "handing over of sovereignty" was not really that - it was co-ownership arrangement that was on offer. British control would be established and maintained, the Argentine flag would be allowed to fly. Appeasement by any other name.

 

[Icy Gull]

Will all you left wing twonks be wishing a slow and painful death on Blair, who is just as big a war mongerer as you think MT was?

I somehow doubt it - hypocritical tossers

 

[El Presidente]

Op Journeyman, and the Argentines were deterred by the presence of a nuclear sub. The only "quiet" bit about it was that we didn't tell them about an exclusion zone officially, but they were informed that a nuclear sub was in the area. That time they left. Callaghan only delayed the inevitable.

As for keeping it in the exclusion zone, don't forget about the team of Argentines that were sent to Gibraltar to sink a ship, and our little sortie into Chile. No such thing as an exclusion zone in reality.

The "handing over of sovereignty" was not really that - it was co-ownership arrangement that was on offer. British control would be established and maintained, the Argentine flag would be allowed to fly. Appeasement by any other name.

Fair enough, if the UK government was aware of all this, why was the Falklands so poorly defended in 1982? It does seem that the government had failed in it's duties to the Islanders.

 

[El Presidente]

Will all you left wing tossers be wishing a slow and painful death on Blair, who is just as big a war mongerer as you think MT was?

I somehow doubt it - hypocritical tossers

I think I would rather have a slow and painful death than be married to Cherie

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

It seems to me the only winners from the Falklands were the Royal Navy who could not get down there fast enough. Oh - and Thatcher - who turned from being the least popular prime-minister to a landslide victory. And of course - the arms manufacturers.

Just a look at an atlas should be enough to make you think they are hardly British. It was an embarrassing farce. The tragedy was that people lost their lives - and not just professional soldiers who may know the risks - but conscripts. It should have been avoided.

And please don't compare it to the second World War.