Good news and bad news.

[Vlad the Impala]

Once again I have to say that there weren't any mass suicides amongst the miners in the north of England or the steelworkers either.

Who said anything about mass suicides? Isn't even one enough?

 

[London Irish]

I realise that but there are people who still believe this rubbish.

Why is it rubbish?

Correct me if I'm wrong, we are talking about a settlement of 1,800 people?

A full-scale international war was fought for a population the size of a village? How many ACTUAL lives were lost, almost that number again, so a particular flag could hang up on that barren island?

It was utter madness from beginning to end, and the entire thing was a politically motivated war to ensure an incredibly umpopular Tory party was re-elected in 1983, by stirring up some of the basest and most disgusting xenophobic impulses in the British people.

 

[Simster]

No - but if you stick the subjects you actually know about, then you come across as less of a sycophantic fool, trying to get your tongue up a mod's arse.

I just happen to agree with what he's saying at the moment, but I'm open to your point of view. No need to have one of your all-too-frequent Frank moments. Your last post was indeed an eye-opener, although I still can't see how you're in a position to say that sinking the Blegrano at a cost of 300+ in fact saved more lives than it cost.

My background allows me to have a better-than-educated view of what would probably have happened. If you base your knowledge of the '82 conflict around the Sun headline of "Gotcha", then I don't really expect you to exceed the educational level of most of your previous posts.

A little bit childish, that, and quite unnecessary.

 

[El Presidente]

Nope - but if you are going to quote, then get your facts right. I think the belongs to you.

British Council

BBC

These two say 358

BBC II

This one says 323. Even though it is also from the BBC, so difficult to say which total is correct.

It was a war, if the Belgrano had not been sunk then there would have been many more deaths. The Belgrano sinking saved a lot more Argentine sailors from being sunk.

On NSC it is essential that you say FACT at the end of a sentence, to indicate that it is indeed a FACT, otherwise I may have interpreted your comment as an opinion


The failure of both Galtieri in Buenos Aries and Thatcher in London to await for a diplomatic solution is indicative of a pair of morons playing with the lives of others.

 

[Yorkie]

Why is it rubbish?

Correct me if I'm wrong, we are talking about a settlement of 1,800 people?

A full-scale international war was fought for a population the size of a village? How many ACTUAL lives were lost, almost that number again, so a particular flag could hang up on that barren island?

It was utter madness from beginning to end, and the entire thing was a politically motivated war to ensure an incredibly umpopular Tory party was re-elected in 1983, by stirring up some of the basest and most disgusting xenophobic impulses in the British people.

Who started it?
The Falklanders are more loyal to Britain than a lot of British are.

 

[Yorkie]

Who said anything about mass suicides? Isn't even one enough?

Can you name one?

 

[Simster]

Can you name one?

No but personally I can't name one person who lost his job in the mines/steelworks either. Does that mean those job losses didn't happen either?

 

[Yorkie]

No but personally I can't name one person who lost in job in the mines either. Does that mean those job losses didn't happen either?

Most of them were transferred to the Selby coalfield in North Yorkshire. Other took their redundancy money and either retrained or took other employment.
It did take quite a few years to recover their losses from the strike they were ill advised to start in the first place.

The steel workers went through the same job losses but without a crippling strike.

 

[Ned]

So just 5 years from retirement, I'm assuming he had a tiny mortage which would easily have been paid off by a redundancy package. I think my point still stands; that your father-in-law doesn't sound like the sort of person who was ever going to be affected terribly by redunancy, especially if he was merely going through the motions.

Nope the mortgage ran until the day he died (I know cos it was me who informed the insurance company). It was an endowment policy so they owed the same as day 1 of the mortgage. From 1981 to 83 he had been under threat of redundancy (always transfering to another job within the same company) every 6 months.

As for going through the motions I don't know what you meen as he was busier in retirement (volunatry work for charities and looking after my disabled &housebound grandmother) than when he was employed.

18 holes a week and a few hours on the riverbank during the summer months were the times he 'Allowed' himself.

 

[Vlad the Impala]

Can you name one?

From the BBC:

"The suicide rate increases under Conservative governments, research suggests.

Australian scientists found the suicide rate in the country increased significantly when a Conservative government was in power.

And an analysis of figures in the UK seems to suggest a similar trend.

In one of a series of accompanying editorials, Dr Mary Shaw and colleagues from the University of Bristol say the same patterns were evident in England and Wales between 1901 and 2000.

Rates have been lower under Labour governments and soared under the last Conservative regime, which began in 1979 under Margaret Thatcher.

They fell under 'the more moderate' John Major and after a slight rise when Tony Blair came to power, have since fallen again. "



Suicide rates per million since 1970:

1971-1975 101 Heath (Conservative)
1976-1980 112 Callaghan (Labour)
1981-1985 121 Thatcher (Conservative)
1986-1990 118 Thatcher (Conservative)
1991-1995 110 Major (Conservative)
1996-1998 103 Blair (Labour)

 

[El Presidente]

Suicide rates per million since 1970:

1971-1975 101 Heath (Conservative)
1976-1980 112 Callaghan (Labour)
1981-1985 121 Thatcher (Conservative)
1986-1990 118 Thatcher (Conservative)
1991-1995 110 Major (Conservative)
1996-1998 103 Blair (Labour)

Never mind that, sales of PIMMS from 2008 onwards (Cameron: Toff) will ROCKET.

 

[Simster]

When I said going through the motions, I meant with little work ambition beyond picking up salary and pension, which a lot of people do once they get into their 60s.

Just thought I'd clarify as I hope you weren't offended by the phrase.

 

[Ned]

There is ambition as far as work is concerned then as family come along you tend to see a shift in what is important.

As a grandad through marriage I am begining to see thing very differently myself

 

[El Presidente]

When I said going through the motions, I meant with little work ambition beyond picking up salary and pension, which a lot of people do once they get into their 60s.

Just thought I'd clarify as I hope you weren't offended by the phrase.

You are neither a miner, stellworker, Tory Boy, sailor or mortgage broker, so SHUT IT as you don't know what you are talking about mate. Get your tongue out of my arse BTW.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

What about all the police drafted into pit areas during the strike ? With all the overtime and allowances they earned during this period a considerable number of them must have paid off their mortgages whilst the striking miners and their families were on the edge of starvation with no money coming in. Thatcher knew that by breaking the NUM , the trades union movement would never be powerful again. Thatcherism has now evolved into Blairism and in a few years we'll be remembering him in just the same way.

 

[Gully]

What people forget about the Falklands War is that the islanders themselves informed the British Government that the Argentinians were planning an invasion, it was the removal of the Navy Ship based in the area that actually gave them the green light, they mistakenly believed that the UK no longer cared about the Sovereignty of the islands. Lord Carrington and the former Shoreham MP Richard Luce both resigned from the Government in shame over their failings in the whole saga.

The fact that Maggie gained so much kudos over the re-taking of the islands conveniently masked the fact that it was her Government which ignored all the warning signs in the first place, merely supplementing the Royal Marine contingent in Stanley and maintaining the RN presence may have been enough to dissuade the Argentinians.

 

[London Irish]

Who started it?

The British governments of both parties of the 1970s who were quite happy to open negotiations on the future soveriegnty of the islands with Argentina?

If that deal had been concluded, around 1,500 Argentine and British serviceman's lives could have been saved plus untold billions wasted spent servicing a permanent military base in the South Atlantic OF NO STRATEGIC SIGNIFICANCE WHATSOEVER (except to the majorities of a number of fat warmongering Tory MPs of the 1980s).

 

[Ned]

As a Yorkshireman and ex steelworker I never really agrred with the majority of Thatcherite policies (espescially YOP/YTS) but had respect for her as the only politician in a long time to have the balls(sic) to make a decision and stick to it wether it was popular or not. Funily enough the only other leader for a while to win three consecutive elections is Blair and look at his style.

 

[El Presidente]

Who started it?
The Falklanders are more loyal to Britain than a lot of British are.

Then why don't they come and live here and save the taxpayer a fortune.

 

[Sergi Gotsmanov]

Then why don't they come and live here and save the taxpayer a fortune.

Maybe we should force them to move like we did with those poor buggers in Diego Garcia.

Then wait a few years for the tax payer to pay millions in compensation and move them back.