[Football] FFS Tony Bloom

[Swansman]

But still further away from nothing than Locadia.

As you are Potter's PR guru, maybe you can explain why he rates Locadia as a better PL footballer than Andone, Zequiri & Ali J. Nobody else has been able to see it. Also why is Locadia a better option on the bench than the youngsters Ferguson & Tolaj?

What does Potter see in a striker who couldn't score in the MLS that makes him believe he will become a successful EPL striker?

The short answer is that he is one of two currently available senior strikers.

The longer answer:

Andone is... probably not any better at this point after years of injuries. Moves to Cadiz on a loan as one of their best paid players and has all the chance in the world to get his career going again and within two weeks he goes to a night club after a loss and is caught in late hours wasted, smoking and fighting and since then he's played about 20 minutes. Just like Locadia he wasnt wanted in the squad but unlike Locadia there was a club willing to take him

Zeqiri is in a stage of his career where he is in desperate need of continous (= not short sub appearances and occasional starts) game time. He is probably better than Locadia but simply not good enough to be a PL starter and if he is going to reach that level, he needed a loan. Keeping him around to play odd minutes here and there would have been bad for the club in the long term and bad for the player.

Ali J was sold and that was the only sensible decision to make there once there was a club interested in his services. It wasnt a choice between these two. It's not like the club sat down and thought "hmm we NEED to keep one of these players.. lets go for Locadia". Both were free to **** off.

Locadia over Ferguson and Tolaj probably comes down to two things: it is quite reasonable to believe that Locadia is still a better footballer than these young men. They've done well, not as well as Connolly once did, but still making fine progress. There is a massive gulf between PL2 and the PL however. People screaming for recently turned 17 year old Ferguson to save the team also tells a story of another problem: most very young players would have difficulties dealing with that pressure. One or two missed sitters or bad passes and then you have the same situation as with Connolly where people shit all over him or with Alzate where you had half a dozen posters expressing their joy with him getting injured against Palace, because "he is shit".

Now if everyone was in agreement that "Ferguson is 17, he might not be perfection but could turn good so lets be nice" then there would be few issues. Unfortunately, it is enough that a dozen people think "I've paid money so I deserve to be an asshole and I'm also severly emphatically handicapped so I need to blame anything on this 17 year old if he is not the new Lionel Messi", it could cause damage to a young person and his development, meaning - unless he has a mind of steel and we outside the club cant know that - he needs to be introduced when there is limited pressure on the team, such as after a few good wins or at the end of season with nothing to play for.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

But he's out on loan. Seems a bit harsh to get him back (if we even can) and 'give him a go' - and when he fails after 3 games gets booed and back to not playing every week.

We're hardly in desperation territory. We're 8th in the league, not losing a lot of games. 'Fine margins'

I still think Potter has to look at himself over the handling of Maupay. He started the season well (4 goals in 9 games) then dropped to experiment with a False 9 and thrown straight back in.

Well yes, the ship has sailed, we sent him out.

It's hardly hindsight to say that going into the season relying on Maupay not having a shocking loss of goalscoring form, Welbeck not getting crocked and Connolly, not having a personal life meltdown was a crazy risk. Also not hindsight to suggest that using our budget to buy young strikers to loan elsewhere wasn't going to attract criticism when our existing options malfunction.

Clearly any young player like Zeqiri or whoever would need some bedding in time. As long as the fella is putting it in, Brighton fans will give them time. But that isn't limitless and it wouldn't be from any fanbase. Season after season of mediocre performance/output and lack of improvement by a player and the fans will let them know. That's not a Brighton thing, they'll get it anywhere.

 

[Icy Gull]

Norwich
Leeds
Southampton (actually maybe not - they have 3 strikers on 2 goals so far)
Brentford
Palace probably on par

I am not talking about goals scored but the number of strikers with PL or even Championship experience. We have Maupay, an injured but very capable Welbeck, Locadia and Connolly. I am sure all those teams have more?

 

[Springal]

It's hardly hindsight to say that going into the season relying on Maupay not having a shocking loss of goalscoring form, Welbeck not getting crocked and Connolly, not having a personal life meltdown was a crazy risk. Also not hindsight to suggest that using our budget to buy young strikers to loan elsewhere wasn't going to attract criticism when our existing options malfunction.

Is it a budget thing? We were in for Nunez and Gonzales or whatever his name was while signing Sima. The difficulty has been signing the right kind of player and them wanting to join us over playing Champions League or Europa League football. Only fans will low IQs think that signing youth players somehow means we can't sign established players.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Is it a budget thing? We were in for Nunez and Gonzales or whatever his name was while signing Sima. The difficulty has been signing the right kind of player and them wanting to join us over playing Champions League or Europa League football. Only fans will low IQs think that signing youth players somehow means we can't sign established players.

Hmm, well presumably there is a finite budget.

None of us are privy to the discussions about how it's allocated, but it's at least plausible that there's a tension between, the "long term" budget (for example Sima and all the other academy players we sign) and the "short term", someone who can come in and perform in the first team now.

I'm not sure it should be off the table for discussion and i'd be surprised if there weren't differing view on this from inside the club. In any case, comments on this are entirely foreseeable as out existing options are misfiring.

I'm not saying we should be binning off the academy to throw it all at someone up front, but the accumulation of all of these punts on the future are clearly costing very good money

 

[Swansman]

I am not talking about goals scored but the number of strikers with PL or even Championship experience. We have Maupay, an injured but very capable Welbeck, Locadia and Connolly. I am sure all those teams have more?

Most teams these days actually have a very limited number of strikers in their squads compared to the old days when most teams started two up front. Most teams only have two established forwards and then some kiddo and some winger able to fill in up front. The days when all teams had four strikers are gone.

 

[Springal]

Hmm, well presumably there is a finite budget.

None of us are privy to the discussions about how it's allocated, but it's at least plausible that there's a tension between, the "long term" budget (for example Sima and all the other academy players we sign) and the "short term", someone who can come in and perform in the first team now.

Well of course - but point is still there we had money for £25M+ transfers and presumably competitive salaries to go with it.

Or are you suggesting now we spent £8M on Sima at the end of the window this will impact what we can spend on a striker moving forward? It doesn't sound like the kind of thing Barber & Bloom would let happen

 

[Icy Gull]

Most teams these days actually have a very limited number of strikers in their squads compared to the old days when most teams started two up front. Most teams only have two established forwards and then some kiddo and some winger able to fill in up front. The days when all teams had four strikers are gone.

So the problem is our inability to get anything from set pieces as we don’t have a free kick specialist (or a clever coach in that department) our painfully slow build ups and a lack of goals from midfield and defenders. Maupay gets the stick though

 

[Springal]

So the problem is our inability to get anything from set pieces as we don’t have a free kick specialist, our painfully slow build ups and the lack of goals from midfield and defenders. Maupay gets the stick though

It is criminal that ;

Dunk
Webster
Gross
March
Lallana

All have 0 PL goals 13 games in.

 

[rippleman]

The short answer is that he is one of two currently available senior strikers.

The longer answer:

Andone is... probably not any better at this point after years of injuries. Moves to Cadiz on a loan as one of their best paid players and has all the chance in the world to get his career going again and within two weeks he goes to a night club after a loss and is caught in late hours wasted, smoking and fighting and since then he's played about 20 minutes. Just like Locadia he wasnt wanted in the squad but unlike Locadia there was a club willing to take him

Zeqiri is in a stage of his career where he is in desperate need of continous (= not short sub appearances and occasional starts) game time. He is probably better than Locadia but simply not good enough to be a PL starter and if he is going to reach that level, he needed a loan. Keeping him around to play odd minutes here and there would have been bad for the club in the long term and bad for the player.

Ali J was sold and that was the only sensible decision to make there once there was a club interested in his services. It wasnt a choice between these two. It's not like the club sat down and thought "hmm we NEED to keep one of these players.. lets go for Locadia". Both were free to **** off.

Locadia over Ferguson and Tolaj probably comes down to two things: it is quite reasonable to believe that Locadia is still a better footballer than these young men. They've done well, not as well as Connolly once did, but still making fine progress. There is a massive gulf between PL2 and the PL however. People screaming for recently turned 17 year old Ferguson to save the team also tells a story of another problem: most very young players would have difficulties dealing with that pressure. One or two missed sitters or bad passes and then you have the same situation as with Connolly where people shit all over him or with Alzate where you had half a dozen posters expressing their joy with him getting injured against Palace, because "he is shit".

Now if everyone was in agreement that "Ferguson is 17, he might not be perfection but could turn good so lets be nice" then there would be few issues. Unfortunately, it is enough that a dozen people think "I've paid money so I deserve to be an asshole and I'm also severly emphatically handicapped so I need to blame anything on this 17 year old if he is not the new Lionel Messi", it could cause damage to a young person and his development, meaning - unless he has a mind of steel and we outside the club cant know that - he needs to be introduced when there is limited pressure on the team, such as after a few good wins or at the end of season with nothing to play for.

Thank you Swanny.

If I accept that we had to keep Locadia because nobody else, anywhere, would take him after he established himself not good enough for the MLS, that doesn't mean that Potter had to find a place for him in the 25 man squad, and certainly doesn't mean that he has to put him in a matchday squad and then compound that error by bringing him on. That was just crap management.

You talk, quite rightly, about the potential impact on the youngsters if he was to try them out but they do at least have potential. Locadia has no potential whatsoever. He has had quite a few opportunities now. How would AllyMac have felt seeing a non-footballer being sent on over him for example? How must Maupay have felt having run his socks off and trying his heart out being replaced by an overweight, unfit, non-trier who doesn't want to "fit in"?

Playing Locadia is wrong on so many levels. Instead of bleating about the fans, maybe the manager should look at his own decision making and just admit he got it wrong.

 

[Stat Brother]

It is criminal that ;

Dunk
Webster
Gross
March
Lallana

All have 0 PL goals 13 games in.

To include March would suggest you haven't been paying attention over the last 11 (?) seasons.

We both know that isn't the case.

 

[RyFish]

Fully expecting to get shot down in flames but before Saturday's several misses Maupay was one of the most clinical strikers outside the Big Six this season. Twice the conversion rate of, say, Watkins.

However, Maupay's finishing was poor against Leeds.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Thank you Swanny.

If I accept that we had to keep Locadia because nobody else, anywhere, would take him after he established himself not good enough for the MLS, that doesn't mean that Potter had to find a place for him in the 25 man squad, and certainly doesn't mean that he has to put him in a matchday squad and then compound that error by bringing him on. That was just crap management.

You talk, quite rightly, about the potential impact on the youngsters if he was to try them out but they do at least have potential. Locadia has no potential whatsoever. He has had quite a few opportunities now. How would AllyMac have felt seeing a non-footballer being sent on over him for example? How must Maupay have felt having run his socks off and trying his heart out being replaced by an overweight, unfit, non-trier who doesn't want to "fit in"?

Playing Locadia is wrong on so many levels. Instead of bleating about the fans, maybe the manager should look at his own decision making and just admit he got it wrong.

I wonder if playing him is more a case of keeping him in the shop window through to January - had he scored from that shot then a player worth £0 becomes 1-2 million . He gets a second game because he has scored and if he does it gain then £5million.. I can't see any other logic to it because if he is better than Tolaj or Ferguson (sorry Swanny) I think we need to get more strikers in the U23... He's more experienced but both Tolaj & Ferguson should be hungry for it and in my mind a good attitude counts for more even if it is spurred on by potential for more money.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

this thread is a convenient list of NSC contributors to be avoided if anyone wants it.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Well of course - but point is still there we had money for £25M+ transfers and presumably competitive salaries to go with it.

Or are you suggesting now we spent £8M on Sima at the end of the window this will impact what we can spend on a striker moving forward? It doesn't sound like the kind of thing Barber & Bloom would let happen

I'm not, because I don't know how the budget is allocated. The point I was making is the act of spending this sort of money on a player to loan out (and loaning out existing strikers like Zeqiri) is likely to attract criticism when our existing options misfire.

Though I can imagine a convincing case being made that had a £25m offer been a £33m offer with a corresponding increase in the salary we offered, we'd have had a better chance of getting a deal across the line

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I’m not sure its about us not scoring enough goals as the important number is how many points you have and where you are in the table. Everyone only knows we need a new striker because we probably create far more chances than most teams so the lack of goals stands out more. There are plenty of teams that have scored more than us but are well below us in the league…who cares?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I wonder if playing him is more a case of keeping him in the shop window through to January - had he scored from that shot then a player worth £0 becomes 1-2 million . He gets a second game because he has scored and if he does it gain then £5million.. I can't see any other logic to it because if he is better than Tolaj or Ferguson (sorry Swanny) I think we need to get more strikers in the U23... He's more experienced but both Tolaj & Ferguson should be hungry for it and in my mind a good attitude counts for more even if it is spurred on by potential for more money.

A few if's in there.

Surely a manager should be concentrating on getting league points on the board and not manipulating the valuation of one of his players.

 

[zefarelly]

I wonder if playing him is more a case of keeping him in the shop window through to January - had he scored from that shot then a player worth £0 becomes 1-2 million . He gets a second game because he has scored and if he does it gain then £5million.. I can't see any other logic to it because if he is better than Tolaj or Ferguson (sorry Swanny) I think we need to get more strikers in the U23... He's more experienced but both Tolaj & Ferguson should be hungry for it and in my mind a good attitude counts for more even if it is spurred on by potential for more money.

JL is in the squad and got a cameo purely because he's in the shop window, as we want him gone, ( same thing with AJ) and GP making a point about having gash strikers.

It worked.

 

[TB B&W Army]

Cant believe all the criticism being shown towards TB here
Without this guy, we would be royally screwed over, and not be in the position we are today
To those who say just go and buy a striker, who would you buy, and how much for?
Many said at the time that our early season position was a bit false, but we are still in 8th place. 8th
Just let that sink in from where we were 10 years ago.
Maupay should still have some credit in the bank from his goal at the shithole up the road, and like many strikers, often goes on a run, so lets get behind the boys and cut out the booing and criticism of TB. Lets face it, if he loses the faith, then what happens?

 

[GT49er]

............ it is quite reasonable to believe that Locadia is still a better footballer than these young men.......

Good post - agree with most of it ......................... but then you try to slip in a howler like that! 'Reasonable to believe Locadia os still a better footballer than these young men' - no, no, it just isn't. It's 100% cobblers!