traitors

[coventrygull]

Will the British Moslems fighting our troops in Afghanistan be given a parade when they return?

 

[rudeboy]

!?!

fanatical muslim scum

 

[sydney]

where would you send all the British, white, anglo-saxon (or whatever strain of brit it is you and Bushy fetishise over) anti-war people then?

you cant send them anywhere can you , they haven't gone to england to escape the f*** up that is their own country, i just think that what these people have done is WAY out of order. if you stood on a street in an arab country holding up a cardboard box slagging off the army/govt you would get shot..fact

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Incidentally, the right to protest is one of the reasons I am PROUD of my country. These weird self indulgent unprincipled twats doing the protesting are really no better than the worst type of National Front morons IMO. It's a necessary evil in our society I think. The alternative is much worse.[/QUOT

But is it a necessary evil? If I was to stand in the street in Golders Green and hold up a placard saying "The Holocaust never happened, its all Jewish lies" I would be carted off to the nick double quick time - and rightly so. These protesters have another agenda here which is to deliberately cause violent disturbances leading to a much wider conflagration of hate and were expecting the kind of knee jerk reaction in the press that we have seen today which,ultimately, suits them and their leaders strategy.

Some issues are too emotive to allow lies whether it be that British soldiers are "raping thousands" and deliberately murdering Muslim babies or Holocaust denial its still falsehood and cannot be tolerated in public.

Like i said earlier the OB should let them rant and rave all they want but for christs sake NOT in the middle of a crowded high street in full of Soldiers families and friends there to welcome their boys home after a tour which has seen 12 of their comrades killed by Muslim combatants.

Basra is by and large under control and I don't think that "Thousands" of Iraqis have been killed or raped by the Anglian regiment. On that basis this protest should be regarded as incitement and the placard wavers stuck in Belmarsh.

 

[Simster]

Food for thought, Bev and I wouldn't rush to disagree with you.

 

[coventrygull]

....and these are contributing factors as to why we will inevitably see "Nationalist Britain" in our life time.

Only a matter of time, this country has gone to the dogs & certain ethnic minority's are making it ever more easy for Britons to point the finger.

I can only hope

 

[Storer68]

Oh, how funny you are mate!

Those soldiers would not have live ammo anyway.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the war in Iraq, these soldiers are doing their duty and risking their lives fighting for our country.

They should not be subjected to abuse from scum like that!

The worst thing is when there was trouble, the only two that got nicked were standing up for the squadies!

Please do explain just how they are "fighting for our country"?

 

[Storer68]

Next time you come home from work having risked your life because of the will of your democratically elected government, please let me know and I'll come and cheer you myself. I'd think that was the least you deserve.

but as voted in by a MINORITY of the people!

 

[The Cardinal]

I am against the war but my protest is against the Government. Not serving soldiers.

Traitor, HANG him !

 

[User removed 4]

Traitor, HANG him !

cock, ignore him.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sorry, I said "Next time you come home from work having risked your life because of the will of your democratically elected government, please let me know and I'll come and cheer you myself. I'd think that was the least you deserve."

Now which part of my statement do you not agree with? Are you suggesting our government was NOT democratically elected? Are you saying that those returning soldiers deserved that protest because they knew what they were doing was wrong or had a choice. Are you just dodging my point entirely for some reason or do you not actually agree with your own point but wanted to wind up bushy. I'm genuinely curious...

Incidentally, the right to protest is one of the reasons I am PROUD of my country. These weird self indulgent unprincipled twats doing the protesting are really no better than the worst type of National Front morons IMO. It's a necessary evil in our society I think. The alternative is much worse.

I just find it interesting that the likes of you and others appear to support the army going in to install democracy and all the various perceived freedom it brings in Iraq...whilst not allowing people to exercise the very same freedom here.

 

[coventrygull]

Excuse me. I don't think I can be called a traitor because I am against a war that we should of never got ourselves involved in. I have the utmost respect for our serving soldiers.

 

[User removed 4]

I just find it interesting that the likes of you and others appear to support the army going in to install democracy and all the various perceived freedom it brings in Iraq...whilst not allowing people to exercise the very same freedom here.

let's be honest, the debate isn't about free speech , its about nationality , and the concept of loyalty to this country, there its out in the open.

 

[Common as Mook]

Excuse me. I don't think I can be called a traitor because I am against a war that we should of never got ourselves involved in. I have the utmost respect for our serving soldiers.

And that's the key.

I have no problem with our armed forces. They are paid to do a job and they serve where they get sent; a jolly good job they do of it to.

What I do object to is when the have their lives put in danger on the basis of a lie.

 

[coventrygull]

And that's the key.

I have no problem with our armed forces. They are paid to do a job and they serve where they get sent; a jolly good job they do of it to.

What I do object to is when the have their lives put in danger on the basis of a lie.

Its a pity I can't get onto the Mrs facebook. Our Nephew a serving soldier has sent us a really nasty video of what it is really like out there and what they are going through.

Sadly I think this war has created a more Militant and fanatical Islam and god only know's how it will end. Is pakistan going next. Oh goody militants with nuclear weapons.

 

[e77]

Unfortunately, living in a democracy we have to allow demonstrations from people whose views we disagree with. In a sense it is the best advert for the armed services work abroad.

 

[coventrygull]

Unfortunately, living in a democracy we have to allow demonstrations from people whose views we disagree with. In a sense it is the best advert for the armed services work abroad.

I don't have a problem with people demonstrating but it should of been kept away from the soldiers parade. I remember when I was in the NF/BNP in the old days our marches were banned or kept away from areas where there might be trouble.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

let's be honest, the debate isn't about free speech , its about nationality , and the concept of loyalty to this country, there its out in the open.

I think you know my views on blind loyalty. It's for fools.

 

[Dandyman]

let's be honest, the debate isn't about free speech , its about nationality , and the concept of loyalty to this country, there its out in the open.

What was the nationality of the protestors ? How do you know they were not born and bred here?

Loyalty is an interesting concept. Part of the reason I and several hundred thousand other people marched against Blair's lies back in 2003 is precisely because we do care about country and what happens to it.

Robin Cooks resignation speach (below) still strikes me as an expression of more genuine patriotism than any of the weasel words of Blair, Brown, Cameron or any other supporters of an illegal, immoral, dishonest and disasterous war could ever express:

"This is the first time for 20 years that I have addressed the House from the back benches.

I must confess that I had forgotten how much better the view is from here.

None of those 20 years were more enjoyable or more rewarding than the past two, in which I have had the immense privilege of serving this House as Leader of the House, which were made all the more enjoyable, Mr Speaker, by the opportunity of working closely with you.

It was frequently the necessity for me as Leader of the House to talk my way out of accusations that a statement had been preceded by a press interview.

On this occasion I can say with complete confidence that no press interview has been given before this statement.

I have chosen to address the House first on why I cannot support a war without international agreement or domestic support.

Backing Blair

The present Prime Minister is the most successful leader of the Labour party in my lifetime.

I hope that he will continue to be the leader of our party, and I hope that he will continue to be successful. I have no sympathy with, and I will give no comfort to, those who want to use this crisis to displace him.

I applaud the heroic efforts that the prime minister has made in trying to secure a second resolution.

I do not think that anybody could have done better than the foreign secretary in working to get support for a second resolution within the Security Council.

But the very intensity of those attempts underlines how important it was to succeed.

Now that those attempts have failed, we cannot pretend that getting a second resolution was of no importance.

French intransigence?

France has been at the receiving end of bucket loads of commentary in recent days.

It is not France alone that wants more time for inspections. Germany wants more time for inspections; Russia wants more time for inspections; indeed, at no time have we signed up even the minimum necessary to carry a second resolution.

We delude ourselves if we think that the degree of international hostility is all the result of President Chirac.

The reality is that Britain is being asked to embark on a war without agreement in any of the international bodies of which we are a leading partner - not NATO, not the European Union and, now, not the Security Council.

To end up in such diplomatic weakness is a serious reverse.

Only a year ago, we and the United States were part of a coalition against terrorism that was wider and more diverse than I would ever have imagined possible.

'Heavy price'

History will be astonished at the diplomatic miscalculations that led so quickly to the disintegration of that powerful coalition.

The US can afford to go it alone, but Britain is not a superpower.

Our interests are best protected not by unilateral action but by multilateral agreement and a world order governed by rules.

Yet tonight the international partnerships most important to us are weakened: the European Union is divided; the Security Council is in stalemate.

Those are heavy casualties of a war in which a shot has yet to be fired.

I have heard some parallels between military action in these circumstances and the military action that we took in Kosovo. There was no doubt about the multilateral support that we had for the action that we took in Kosovo.

It was supported by NATO; it was supported by the European Union; it was supported by every single one of the seven neighbours in the region. France and Germany were our active allies.

It is precisely because we have none of that support in this case that it was all the more important to get agreement in the Security Council as the last hope of demonstrating international agreement.

Public doubts

The legal basis for our action in Kosovo was the need to respond to an urgent and compelling humanitarian crisis.

Our difficulty in getting support this time is that neither the international community nor the British public is persuaded that there is an urgent and compelling reason for this military action in Iraq.

The threshold for war should always be high.

None of us can predict the death toll of civilians from the forthcoming bombardment of Iraq, but the US warning of a bombing campaign that will "shock and awe" makes it likely that casualties will be numbered at least in the thousands.

I am confident that British servicemen and women will acquit themselves with professionalism and with courage. I hope that they all come back.

I hope that Saddam, even now, will quit Baghdad and avert war, but it is false to argue that only those who support war support our troops.

It is entirely legitimate to support our troops while seeking an alternative to the conflict that will put those troops at risk.

Nor is it fair to accuse those of us who want longer for inspections of not having an alternative strategy.

For four years as foreign secretary I was partly responsible for the western strategy of containment.

Over the past decade that strategy destroyed more weapons than in the Gulf war, dismantled Iraq's nuclear weapons programme and halted Saddam's medium and long-range missiles programmes.

Iraq's military strength is now less than half its size than at the time of the last Gulf war.

Threat questioned

Ironically, it is only because Iraq's military forces are so weak that we can even contemplate its invasion. Some advocates of conflict claim that Saddam's forces are so weak, so demoralised and so badly equipped that the war will be over in a few days.

We cannot base our military strategy on the assumption that Saddam is weak and at the same time justify pre-emptive action on the claim that he is a threat.

Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term - namely a credible device capable of being delivered against a strategic city target.

It probably still has biological toxins and battlefield chemical munitions, but it has had them since the 1980s when US companies sold Saddam anthrax agents and the then British Government approved chemical and munitions factories.

Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm a military capacity that has been there for 20 years, and which we helped to create?

Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddam's ambition to complete his weapons programme is blocked by the presence of UN inspectors?

Israeli breaches

Only a couple of weeks ago, Hans Blix told the Security Council that the key remaining disarmament tasks could be completed within months.

I have heard it said that Iraq has had not months but 12 years in which to complete disarmament, and that our patience is exhausted.

Yet it is more than 30 years since resolution 242 called on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

We do not express the same impatience with the persistent refusal of Israel to comply.

I welcome the strong personal commitment that the prime minister has given to middle east peace, but Britain's positive role in the middle east does not redress the strong sense of injustice throughout the Muslim world at what it sees as one rule for the allies of the US and another rule for the rest.

Nor is our credibility helped by the appearance that our partners in Washington are less interested in disarmament than they are in regime change in Iraq.

That explains why any evidence that inspections may be showing progress is greeted in Washington not with satisfaction but with consternation: it reduces the case for war.

Presidential differences

What has come to trouble me most over past weeks is the suspicion that if the hanging chads in Florida had gone the other way and Al Gore had been elected, we would not now be about to commit British troops.

The longer that I have served in this place, the greater the respect I have for the good sense and collective wisdom of the British people.

On Iraq, I believe that the prevailing mood of the British people is sound. They do not doubt that Saddam is a brutal dictator, but they are not persuaded that he is a clear and present danger to Britain.

They want inspections to be given a chance, and they suspect that they are being pushed too quickly into conflict by a US Administration with an agenda of its own.

Above all, they are uneasy at Britain going out on a limb on a military adventure without a broader international coalition and against the hostility of many of our traditional allies.

From the start of the present crisis, I have insisted, as Leader of the House, on the right of this place to vote on whether Britain should go to war.

It has been a favourite theme of commentators that this House no longer occupies a central role in British politics.

Nothing could better demonstrate that they are wrong than for this House to stop the commitment of troops in a war that has neither international agreement nor domestic support.

I intend to join those tomorrow night who will vote against military action now. It is for that reason, and for that reason alone, and with a heavy heart, that I resign from the government."

 

[Simster]

I just find it interesting that the likes of you and others appear to support the army going in to install democracy and all the various perceived freedom it brings in Iraq...whilst not allowing people to exercise the very same freedom here.

Eh? I explicitly made the point that I didn't support the war in Iraq! Jesus, you're just making it up shite to suit your argument.