[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Cotton Socks]

Correct.

“Stop the boats” is not a world away from this:


8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

Unfortunately that was my instant comparison. Can't say all of his manifesto was bad though, some ideas seemed great... increased pensions, jobs for all, protection for women & children. That's half the population voting for you, & you can see why.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The point of self employment is that is saves both employer and employee quite a lot of money, especially as regards National Insurance,. It may not be all Lineker's fault, because the BBC have a record of ordering their presenters to claim self-employment rather than employment, probably because it also saves them paying sick pay, holiday pay, statutory notice pay, etc. But Lineker must have concurred in this particular way of avoiding taxes, for whatever reason.

Being part-time doesn't stop you being self-employed. And having another career which is definitely self-employed doesn't necessarily mean that MotD won't be treated as employment. There are various "badges of employment", whereby (in very broadest outline) if the "employer" can tell you how to do the job and when you must do it, you're more likely to be in employment than if you can choose your own hours and do it how you want.

So. for example, if Lineker is given a script to repeat and has to present MotD every Saturday, he's more likely to be in employment than if he writes his own script and can take a week off if he wants. But it's far more complicated than that.

Plenty of BBC presenters have been pursued by HMRC about this issue, some successfully, others not. It's a very grey area.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Correct.

“Stop the boats” is not a world away from this:


8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

Why not go the whole hog and launch (pun intended) a campaign to keep the boats running?

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?

 

[jcdenton08]

Come on. It’s hyperbolic and an exaggeration. An extreme soundbite makes much more sense for a Tweet than sensible, considered centrism - we’ve seen that here ourselves! He’s entitled to his opinion, whatever that may be as long as it doesn’t bring his role at the BBC into disrepute.

I shouldn’t have to explain this, but he doesn’t actually think Britain is like Nazi Germany. He’s making the point that policies on this issue are more extreme than he’d like them to be - with Godwin’s law always, ALWAYS being the final destination in such a comment.

Everyone is a “Nazi” if the average punter disagrees with them enough. Millions of people have been tarred with the Nazi brush as varied as Nigel Farage, JK Rowling, Mark Clattenburg, traffic wardens, the chief commissioning editor of the BBC, Jeremy Clarkson, your mum…

He’s entitled to his opinion but I’m staggered that people are taking it literally. If it were actually like Nazi Germany, he wouldn’t be openly tweeting things like that without the Gestapo arresting him. There wouldn’t be social media as we know it for one thing.

 

[Seagull27]

Why not go the whole hog and launch (pun intended) a campaign to keep the boats running?

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?

Does France take fewer asylum seekers than the UK then? If so, I'm sure you'll be able to find a source that confirms.

Or is it possible that those asylum seekers always wanted to come to the UK because they have family here, or speak English over French, for example?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Does France take fewer asylum seekers than the UK then? If so, I'm sure you'll be able to find a source that confirms.

Or is it possible that those asylum seekers always wanted to come to the UK because they have family here, or speak English over French, for example?

Every chance they always wanted to come to the UK. But the reason they get on those pitiful boats in France is because they want to leave France and come to England.

 

[BadFish]

Every chance they always wanted to come to the UK. But the reason they get on those pitiful boats in France is because they want to leave France and come to England.

Desperate right. They must have some pretty good reasons to want to get to the UK and risk their lives like that, especially with the slow processing speeds at the other end.

France being a hell hole is probably not one the reasons of course, because it isn't.

What would posses people to make such a dangerous journey with such a hard government to greet them at the other end?

 

[Easy 10]

Desperate right. They must have some pretty good reasons to want to get to the UK and risk their lives like that, especially with the slow processing speeds at the other end.

France being a hell hole is probably not one the reasons of course, because it isn't.

What would posses people to make such a dangerous journey with such a hard government to greet them at the other end?

Hollyoaks ?

 

[BadFish]

Hollyoaks ?

Exactly where I was going with that . The French version is shit.

 

[Nobby]

One of the questions on Jnr's Nazi Germany GCSE history revision the other day was to pick 3 points from a simplified version of Hitlers 25 point plan & give reasons why they would've been voted for & who would've voted for them. I found myself disturbed that I was able to make (in my view) to many direct comparisons to what is happening in politics now.

This

 

[Nobby]

Every chance they always wanted to come to the UK. But the reason they get on those pitiful boats in France is because they want to leave France and come to England.

Why anyone would do that is always beyond me.
Why come to a country that has been completely fecked over for the last decade and contains a bunch of loons that have managed to get themselves the gig of running (down) our country.
What a state we are in - both senses of that word
Oh, welcome back by the way

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Why anyone would do that is always beyond me.
Why come to a country that has been completely fecked over for the last decade and contains a bunch of loons that have managed to get themselves the gig of running (down) our country.
What a state we are in - both senses of that word
Oh, welcome back by the way

' completely fecked over for the last 44 years '.....corrected for you....the slide downhill started in 1979 and has just accelerated. Both parties to blame. Thatcher for creating a self-centred, greedy mentality Major for preaching moral behaviour and doing the opposite. Blair for reducing the education system to statistics, ruining two generations of kids and as a sideline, waging unnecessary war. Brown for waiting too long for the top job and then selling off the gold reserve. Cameron for putting internal party politics before serious national interest and the rest that followed.....well enough said.
......and none of them....none of them....ever get to grips with the issues that will lift our country out of the mire.......1) Affordable social housing 2) Realising that business needs help. Not raping and pillaging for money all the time. We need investment and jobs and growth. Not tax after tax after tax. 3 ) Identify the over-manning in the NHS, strip out and reward those who deserve it. 4) Making sure that kids in school are taught how to think and not what to think.

 

[Lever]

I’m baffled by you sometimes. You’ve got a brain, but surely you can spot the bizarre logical fallacies you’re indulging in?

By that logic:

a) each British citizen should only be allowed one cause or interest.

b) the citizen should donate all their wealth to that cause or interest.

Do you live by the rules above yourself, or do you just set them for others?

Every chance they always wanted to come to the UK. But the reason they get on those pitiful boats in France is because they want to leave France and come to England.

and why is that, pray tell? Why not provide an answer WITH EVIDENCE if you have it.... or admit you are just speculating.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Correct.

“Stop the boats” is not a world away from this:


8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

Hitler plan to send Jews to Madagascar is similar to sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.

There’s also arrest and detention without a fair trial.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Come on. It’s hyperbolic and an exaggeration. An extreme soundbite makes much more sense for a Tweet than sensible, considered centrism - we’ve seen that here ourselves! He’s entitled to his opinion, whatever that may be as long as it doesn’t bring his role at the BBC into disrepute.

I shouldn’t have to explain this, but he doesn’t actually think Britain is like Nazi Germany. He’s making the point that policies on this issue are more extreme than he’d like them to be - with Godwin’s law always, ALWAYS being the final destination in such a comment.

Everyone is a “Nazi” if the average punter disagrees with them enough. Millions of people have been tarred with the Nazi brush as varied as Nigel Farage, JK Rowling, Mark Clattenburg, traffic wardens, the chief commissioning editor of the BBC, Jeremy Clarkson, your mum…

He’s entitled to his opinion but I’m staggered that people are taking it literally. If it were actually like Nazi Germany, he wouldn’t be openly tweeting things like that without the Gestapo arresting him. There wouldn’t be social media as we know it for one thing.

The only reference to Nazi, is from people criticising Gary Lineker. He didn’t say the word.
His tweet said language dehumanising people is similar to that used in Germany in the 1930s.

That is criticism of words like invaders, hordes, swarms, exaggerations like billions, and even worse, cockroaches.

 

[chickens]

The point of self employment is that is saves both employer and employee quite a lot of money, especially as regards National Insurance,. It may not be all Lineker's fault, because the BBC have a record of ordering their presenters to claim self-employment rather than employment, probably because it also saves them paying sick pay, holiday pay, statutory notice pay, etc. But Lineker must have concurred in this particular way of avoiding taxes, for whatever reason.

Being part-time doesn't stop you being self-employed. And having another career which is definitely self-employed doesn't necessarily mean that MotD won't be treated as employment. There are various "badges of employment", whereby (in very broadest outline) if the "employer" can tell you how to do the job and when you must do it, you're more likely to be in employment than if you can choose your own hours and do it how you want.

So. for example, if Lineker is given a script to repeat and has to present MotD every Saturday, he's more likely to be in employment than if he writes his own script and can take a week off if he wants. But it's far more complicated than that.

Plenty of BBC presenters have been pursued by HMRC about this issue, some successfully, others not. It's a very grey area.

Gary Lineker has proven that he is self-employed at tribunal in 2021. When you hire someone as a contractor, you are absolutely within your rights to set standards of behaviour and impartiality in the workplace.

To this end, I have never seen Gary Lineker express any political messaging on Match of the Day.

What those hiring contractors do not have, is the right to silence a private individual from expressing their personal opinions on their personal platforms outside of the work they do for the organisation they have a contract with.

Anyway, isn’t this all distracting nicely from the complete ineffectiveness of this government who’ve had thirteen years in power and have brought our country to its knees?

 

[Randy McNob]

Why not go the whole hog and launch (pun intended) a campaign to keep the boats running?

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?

because simply put, they're not going to France. France just happens to be the final country before getting to the UK

Lets look at it, for arguments sake, the other way around. Imagine refugees were fleeing their country and were trying to get to France but were holed up in the UK. Would we be stopping them, dragging them back here and forcing them to live in the UK?

 

[Seagull27]

Every chance they always wanted to come to the UK. But the reason they get on those pitiful boats in France is because they want to leave France and come to England.

Genuine question - if war broke out in the UK and your family had been targeted, you decided it was best to leave to keep them all safe. Which country would you go to?

 

[Is it PotG?]

I may not have mentioned it, but I'm in Austria for a week skiing.....

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[rogersix]

Why not go the whole hog and launch (pun intended) a campaign to keep the boats running?

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?

can you afford geography up there?