[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[LamieRobertson]

I'd argue that by constantly trying to look "hard" with our increasingly draconian anti-migrant policies and communications, it's having the opposite effect. As others have said, I don't recall mass boat crossings being an issue under Cameron (a Tory, by the way to things were working alright back then) but became a huge problem after the May government.

If only there were some event that we could point to that drove a massive anti-migrant, hostile environment ideology and ramp-up in immigration policy changes...

View attachment 158126

Oh that event….nuff said…good graph..personally think its more than just that …but back to the Albion sub forum as ive broken my rule to not talk about these things unless i can see the whites of peoples eyes over a coffee

 

[The Clamp]

Oh that event….nuff said…good graph..personally think its more than just that …but back to the Albion sub forum as ive broken my rule to not talk about these things unless i can see the whites of peoples eyes over a coffee

Off with his tail between his legs.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I thought not. Sorry Lamie but you’ve embarrassed yourself there. But don’t worry. I had no expectation that you could back up your claims.

Believe me, if any party came up with some of these Tory policies, I’d be very critical of them too. More so as I’d expect better.

I think your dislike of immigrants clouds your judgement. Or maybe it’s your unwillingness to have a look at the facts and your haste to take the anti-immigration rhetoric as true.

For someone who claims not to support the Tory’s, you sure do spend a lot of time defending their policies.

But fine, we’ll try it your way. Let’s see if

A) this latest scheme is even legsl

B) it achieves the desired results

I’ll be over here on the edge of my seat.

Lol….sorry Clampie but u know whatever arguments i come up with they wont change your mind….but i really must get back to work..I’ll leave you to all your like minded peeps

oh and dont worry the latest ’scheme’ is being challenged by all those neutral (haha) cival servants ….

 

[LamieRobertson]

Off with his tail between his legs.

Hardly…but do i care…f*** no

 

[worthingseagull123]

Gary Lineker’s political tweets could help him avoid £4.9m tax bill

Presenter’s tweets on Brexit and Tories could form part of case that he is not a typical BBC or BT Sport employee

www.theguardian.com

Is it all really about money?

 

[clapham_gull]

We aren’t going to agree which is fine…but I’d say a bit of both …I can see from the posts it’s not a popular view but hey ..I think differently ..shrug

Alternative facts and all that.

 

[The Clamp]

Lol….sorry Clampie but u know whatever arguments i come up with they wont change your mind….but i really must get back to work..I’ll leave you to all your like minded peeps

oh and dont worry the latest ’scheme’ is being challenged by all those neutral (haha) cival servants ….

Sure

 

[The Clamp]

Hardly…but do i care…f*** no

Clearly. Why else would you keep posting

 

[Rdodge30]

I thought not. Sorry Lamie but you’ve embarrassed yourself there. But don’t worry. I had no expectation that you could back up your claims.

Believe me, if any party came up with some of these Tory policies, I’d be very critical of them too. More so as I’d expect better.

I think your dislike of immigrants clouds your judgement. Or maybe it’s your unwillingness to have a look at the facts and your haste to take the anti-immigration rhetoric as true.

For someone who claims not to support the Tory’s, you sure do spend a lot of time defending their policies.

But fine, we’ll try it your way. Let’s see if

A) this latest scheme is even legal

B) it achieves the desired results

I’ll be over here on the edge of my seat.

I always seem to come back to the same question- then get shouted down for apparently being a conservative.

If it is so clearly, as you and many others say, a problem caused by a conservative government (even to the point bizarrely where the reason these people are leaving their horrific living conditions in their home countries is somehow the fault of the British government)

What is the Labour Party’s proposed policy to tackle this issue?
One thing is certain in my view the solution will not be easy

In order to become Prime Minister he must show he has a strategy soon on this and ALL the problems facing our country. General Election 14 months away? It is not enough to simply keep chanting “you don’t know what you’re doing”

I worry that if Sir Keir continues to sit on his hands policy wise, his lead in the polls will gradually diminish and the Election will be a sprint finish

 

[The Clamp]

I always seem to come back to the same question- then get shouted down for apparently being a conservative.

If it is so clearly, as you and many others say, a problem caused by a conservative government (even to the point bizarrely where the reason these people are leaving their horrific living conditions in their home countries is somehow the fault of the British government)

What is the Labour Party’s proposed policy to tackle this issue?
One thing is certain in my view the solution will not be easy

In order to become Prime Minister he must show he has a strategy soon on this and ALL the problems facing our country. General Election 14 months away? It is not enough to simply keep chanting “you don’t know what you’re doing”

I worry that if Sir Keir continues to sit on his hands policy wise, his lead in the polls will gradually diminish and the Election will be a sprint finish

My gut says that he is being wise and not giving the Tory’s any grist for the mill.

A fine balance though. Could be risky.

Having said that, Starmer is a solicitor. He knows when to hunker and when to pounce.

As they say; never interrupt your enemies while they are making a mistake.

 

[beorhthelm]

The boats are coming because we are a soft touch

the boats come because there's checks at Calais now, replaced the lorry route. we always had large numbers of immigrants entering illegally (hence Sangatte and other camps near the coast), we just didnt catch or count them. boats are much easier to detect and scoop up a dozen or so people at a time.

No. Boat crossings were rare when legal migration routes were available. The Conservative Party has exacerbated the problem massively via its current policies.

When migrants arrived through legal channels, we had the ability to measure their claims, grant asylum to those who genuinely needed it, and deport those whose claims were not valid. We have now lost that ability.

We’re all poorer as a result of this stupidity.

there weren't alternative legal routes. they weren't queuing up at ports or embassies, you have to get into the country to make any asylum claim. same as every other country, the difference is they have a land boarder to easily sneak across.

 

[The Clamp]

Increase in small boat crossings caused by no returns agreement after Brexit

New report 'Sea Change on Border Control' shows that "the primary factor behind small boat crossings is the UK's lacking a returns agreement with the EU. This was a consequence of the UK's Brexit deal"

northeastbylines.co.uk

 

[The Clamp]

Small Boats: the Post-Brexit Migration Story the Media Doesn't Report – Byline Times

Thom Brooks' report reveals the Government has created the Channel migration 'small boats' crisis through its hard Brexit policies

bylinetimes.com

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The boats are coming because we are a soft touch

Hardly any boats came before 2018 (just 43). There weren't many coming in on lorries either. The Withdrawal Agreement caused this because the Dublin Agreement was dumped as it was an EU ruling.

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending December 2021

www.gov.uk

As for being a soft touch, benefits in Germany are higher than our £38 a week

 

[The Clamp]

Even though the Tory’s didn’t use the Dublin agreement (it didn’t suit their agenda for their supporters to know about this agreement) it meant that people could be removed to elsewhere in the EU. That’s gone now. Doh!

 

[Eric the meek]

Hardly any boats came before 2018 (just 43). There weren't many coming in on lorries either. The Withdrawal Agreement caused this because the Dublin Agreement was dumped as it was an EU ruling

I hope your're not suggesting that the Brexit supporting thugs didn't know what they were doing, and throughout the years of their thuggery, it didn't cross the mind of one single Brexit campaigner or negotiator that dumping the Dublin Agreement would cause a vacancy for traffickers!

 

[beorhthelm]

Hardly any boats came before 2018 (just 43). There weren't many coming in on lorries either. The Withdrawal Agreement caused this because the Dublin Agreement was dumped as it was an EU ruling.

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending December 2021

www.gov.uk

As for being a soft touch, benefits in Germany are higher than our £38 a week

4% was the number of successful returns under Dublin agreement in 2018. 6 times more claimant came into UK under this scheme. this is not the reason for more migrants, have to get here first. they are not making decisions to come here, or Germany or France based on this technicality.

 

[nicko31]

I hope your're not suggesting that the Brexit supporting thugs didn't know what they were doing, and throughout the years of their thuggery, it didn't cross the mind of one single Brexit campaigner or negotiator that dumping the Dublin Agreement would cause a vacancy for traffickers!

Of course Brexit didn't mean we had to dump the Dublin agreement, loss access to Schenhen SIS II and leave Europol. But that was the choice of the headbangers on the tiller, they never think things through and have comprimised our security out of their choice...

 

[The Clamp]

4% was the number of successful returns under Dublin agreement in 2018. 6 times more claimant came into UK under this scheme. this is not the reason for more migrants, have to get here first. they are not making decisions to come here, or Germany or France based on this technicality.

Many are.
And despite the Tory’s wanting people to believe the Dublin agreement was a mere “technicality”, it was in fact a very powerful and important tool to manage immigration. It was sadly largely ignored by the Tory’s.

If someone seriously thinks the absence of any capacity to remove illegal immigrants is not a factor in traffickers targeting the U.K. post Brexit, they haven’t understood the situation.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?

No. That's just what the willfully ignorant say to cover their hatred of asylum seekers.