[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If the rich don't pay tax, then who are these 1% of earners who pay 28% of the total income tax revenues?

Do the top 1% of earners pay 28% of the tax burden? - Full Fact

There aren’t any readily available figures for what proportion of all taxes the top 1% pays. This claim is just referring to income taxes.

fullfact.org

The top 1% of those who pay income tax are paying 28% of total income tax.

Of course they are.

Now tell me what % of total income tax the top 1% of earners pay.

It is nothing like it should be. "The rich don't pay tax" is shorthand for "thanks to all the tory wheezes cooked up over decades the rich can offset their income tax in a variety of different ways. All perfectly legal, but rendering the bleating and threats to quit the UK every time labour gets in sound like a load of soppy wet hubris".

You are most welcome to the longer version.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The top 1% of those who pay income tax are paying 28% of total income tax.

Of course they are.

Now tell me what % of total income tax the top 1% of earners pay.

It is nothing like it should be. "The rich don't pay tax" is shorthand for "thanks to all the tory wheezes cooked up over decades the rich can offset their income tax in a variety of different ways. All perfectly legal, but rendering the bleating and threats to quit the UK every time labour gets in sound like a load of soppy wet hubris".

You are most welcome to the longer version.

They've been cracking down (not necessarily effectively) on tax avoidance over recent years, not facilitating it. Most government-issue tax avoidance strategies are aimed at the less-than-top earners, eg. ISAs and pension reliefs. Obviously the cracking down isn't particularly effective, which is why Lineker and others can still get away with the (I'm not an employee, I'm a personal service company" dodge which is the most high-profile tax avoidance scheme that the Tory government spent years trying to block.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

They've been cracking down (not necessarily effectively) on tax avoidance over recent years, not facilitating it. Most government-issue tax avoidance strategies are aimed at the less-than-top earners, eg. ISAs and pension reliefs. Obviously the cracking down isn't particularly effective, which is why Lineker and others can still get away with the (I'm not an employee, I'm a personal service company" dodge which is the most high-profile tax avoidance scheme that the Tory government spent years trying to block.

Indeed. Albeit the tories were trying to block what Lineker is doing because Lineker doesn't like the Tories, perhaps.

Those I know who work in the sector say pursuit of unpaid tax is underfunded and patchy, while wheezes still exist.

Any government making 'pay more tax' their platform is likely to find their voter share fall, so we are where we are.

The bit I find odd is that apparently lots of people vote for who they think will lower tax, and yet the total tax burden hardly changes.

Note the graph below is visually misleading because the Y axis does not start at zero. That tomfoolery does my head in

Source https://obr.uk/box/the-uks-tax-burden-in-historical-and-international-context/

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They've been cracking down (not necessarily effectively) on tax avoidance over recent years, not facilitating it. Most government-issue tax avoidance strategies are aimed at the less-than-top earners, eg. ISAs and pension reliefs. Obviously the cracking down isn't particularly effective, which is why Lineker and others can still get away with the (I'm not an employee, I'm a personal service company" dodge which is the most high-profile tax avoidance scheme that the Tory government spent years trying to block.

Self employed is not 'getting away with it'. He is not on PAYE as HMRC tried to say. Other tv presenters have also been investigated this way, but it's interesting that you single out Gary Lineker.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[dsr-burnley]

Self employed is not 'getting away with it'. He is not on PAYE as HMRC tried to say. Other tv presenters have also been investigated this way, but it's interesting that you single out Gary Lineker.

I single out Lineker partly because he's probably the most high-profile of these cases, but also because he's known as being far from Tory and it's only fair to realise that tax avoidance isn't just something Tories do.

To be fair to Lineker and the other presenters caught in the same web - some of whom got away with it and others who didn't - the BBC has been aggressively pushing this form of tax avoidance for years. The benefit for the BBC as employer is that they save NIC for all concerned and they also, as non-employers, are saved from the responsibility of paying sick pay or holiday pay or any other of the protections that employees get.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think the sting in the tail is 'if the change were fiscally neutral'.

It could be moderated with easily-curated adjustments.

And of course it would reel in the Lord Vesty's of this world (OK, he's no longer of this world) if accompanied by an end to the wheezes.

In the present system the philosophy about tax seems to be that it is essentially bad so whatever you can do to mitigate, from gift aid to offshoring is all regarded as not just acceptable but responsible financial management.

I know I haven't got all the details right, but FFS.

And anyway, now Badenough has grasped the nettle it is likely that only a perverse rubric is likely. So for now I remain out.

 

[Hamilton]

If the rich don't pay tax, then who are these 1% of earners who pay 28% of the total income tax revenues?

Do the top 1% of earners pay 28% of the tax burden? - Full Fact

There aren’t any readily available figures for what proportion of all taxes the top 1% pays. This claim is just referring to income taxes.

fullfact.org

I think he means the super rich.

And a lot of people have their 'wealth' tied up in non-taxable assets. Football clubs for example. And you're not gonna pay much tax on a Rembrant hanging on your wall.

Anyhow, a flat rate would lead to government absolving itself of responsibility. It's only a hop skip and a jump from then saying that everyone should pay for their own health care. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.