The Muslim Community

[Curious Orange]

I've always thought the Germans are very similar to us in many ways . . .with the exception of humour and buid quality of cheap runabout cars

... and the build quality of their buxom blonde fraulines!!

 

[Dandyman]

What do the BNP have to do with Hitler? Are you thinking of Column 88?

The BNP is lead by National Socialists with a cadre of "racial nationalists" that's what it has to do with Hitler or do you want to deny that Tyndale and co. are Nazis ?

 

[Dandyman]

For a little background...


Nick Griffin, the British National Party leader, was lined up to speak at a nazi rally in eastern Germany in March. Although he pulled out at the last moment, the National Democratic Party (NPD) had already sent out programmes featuring his picture.
Most of Germany’s leading nazis spoke at the rally entitled “Germany will live – National Awakening in the 21st Century”. The theme of Griffin’s talk was to be Britain’s “Struggle between Cultures”.

Other speakers included the Waffen SS veteran Franz Schönhuber, now the NPD’s media adviser, and Harald Neubauer, a former MEP and member of the outright nazi NSDAP-AO, and now co-publisher of the SS-founded Nation & Europa.

Griffin’s billing at the nazi rally was revealed in the Daily Mirror on 30 March. Searchlight’s chair, Gerry Gable, told the Mirror: “Let people be under no illusions who the suave and softly-spoken Mr Griffin is, and who his nazi friends are”.

The BNP said: “Nick was invited to a conference of the NPD, who we don’t believe are Nazis, but was too busy to go”.

Griffin might have been too engaged in electioneering to attend this time but he has been a visitor to NPD functions for some years, where he has shared platforms with the NPD leader Udo Voigt and two convicted terrorists, Horst Mahler and Roberto Fiore.

Mahler, a lawyer, became prominent in the extreme right after a career with the Baader-Meinhof terrorist gang in the 1970s, which later became the Red Army Faction. Fiore organised the NAR, an armed fascist group, in Italy in the 1970s and 1980s. Some of its members were responsible for the Bologna railway station bombing in 1980 in which over 80 people died.

In August 2002 Griffin attended a festival put on by the NPD’s newspaper Deutsche Stimme (German Voice), where he was photographed with Voigt and the former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke. Later that month he took part in an NPD summer school with Mahler and Voigt. In May 2003 Griffin was billed to speak alongside Voigt, Fiore and the NPD’s lawyer Jürgen Rieger, but failed to turn up.

Griffin organised a BNP demonstration outside the German embassy when the German government tried unsuccessfully to ban the NPD. When Griffin and other BNP officers were arrested last December on suspicion of causing race hate, the NPD website called for support for them.

Griffin has posed in front of a Battle of Britain Spitfire outside the RAF museum in Hendon in a mockery of genuine patriotism, but in February his friends in the NPD led 7,000 nazis in a march through Dresden on the 60th anniversary of the Allied bombing of the city. Banners referred to the bombing as the real holocaust, a genocide and the German Hiroshima. Other slogans called the Allies war criminals and promised that the day of revenge would come.

Both the NPD and the BNP have exaggerated the numbers killed in the raids on Dresden. Allied and German sources put the toll at 21,000 to 31,000, but the nazis speak of over 200,000.

Griffin’s links with Fiore go back to Fiore’s time in exile in Britain, a fugitive from Italian justice. Long before Griffin joined the BNP, Fiore helped Griffin build his Political Soldiers group after it split from the National Front. At the time they were running around East Anglia in the late 1980s somebody desecrated the war graves there of some of the 55,000 US flyers who died in the air war against the Nazis.

Britain also lost 55,000 air crew fighting the Nazis. The BNP’s relationship with the NPD is a stab in the back for our brave war dead and insults their memory in this sixtieth anniversary year of the defeat of the Nazis.

© Searchlight Magazine 2005

 

[3gulls]

I don't find that funny at all. Even as a joke.

Crumbs!

 

[The Great Cornholio]

A very thorny issue, this one. Not helped by the fact that it gives license for people to vent their racist feelings hidden in the clothing of outrage and the moral high ground. I'm sure the same people didn't abuse every Protestant when the Loyalists killed a few people. Or the Catholics when the IRA killed people. The anger was vented towards the extremist minority who committed the acts, not the creed of people they purport to belong to. But change the colour of the skin of the perpertrators and you get a different story.

The goals seems to vary from faction to faction. Some want revenge for Israel/Palestine. Some want revenge for Iraq/Afghanistan. Some want to impose Islamic law on the whole world. Most are probably just brainwashed into hating "Infidels" and it gives them chance to channel their testosterone into unbridled hate/rage. Watch drunken young men on any High Street on a Saturday night. Channel that natural male aggressive energy using promises of hundreds of virgins in paradise for eternity and the injustice of the "infidels" doing this that and the other. I would suggest that it may be possible that the suicide bombers are people who are exploited because of their confusion of their feelings. How vunerable must you be to believe the stuff they are told? They are basically told "Listen to us and not 99.9 % of the Islamic world - if you kill infidels, you will go to parardise"

Religion is a very dangerous thing - even more so 2000 years on. There has been chinese whispers for 2000 years on books that may or may not have been witness statements on actual events. Us protestants can get freely divorced and eschew contraceptives and avoid Hail Mary's and the like because of Henry VIII - how is that religous? Jehova's used to let people die because they interpreted "Never take the blood of another man" to mean no blood transfusions. Other people take it to mean "Do not kill your fellow man"

Islam is the same - different factions have a different take on the Koran. I work with a Muslim guy who has had a couple of beers when out on a night out. When I queried this, he said that the Koran says that a Muslims may not be intoxicated. Some take this as meaning no drink, some as don't get drunk. If you watch the Michael Palin Himalya series, he talks about Pakistan's largest brewery. A fair amount of Muslims drink, contrary to the beliefs of a lot of their bretheren.

The main problem, as I see it, is that it is a religion with more strict rules then any other. Views on women, punishment, praying schedules etc. Modern Muslims are taking a more liberal view and women work, don't wear the Burka. Other Muslims live in places like Britain where they see pornography, excessive drinking etc. Whilst the majority can cope with this, the hardliners see it as an insult to their faith. Maybe there is something to the "Well don't come and live here, then" line that is trotted out. But they are here - many were born here. Pulling up the drawbridge will not stop more attacks.

I really can't see how this can be resolved. After a few more such attacks, the number of "White British" people who start to despise anyone of "Non White" origins will grow. I can forsee a scenario, not unlike that of Northern Ireland with completely isolated communities. And that will make things worse.

We live in very dangerous times.

 

[The Wookiee]

You can't blame the majority of muslims for what happened but muslims have got to start looking at ways to deal with extremism within their faith as much as we have to look at ways to integrate them more into 'British' life.

Why should WE have to look at ways to integrate them into British life?

Surely THEY should be the ones trying their hardest to fit in to OUR way of life in Britain.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

Why should WE have to look at ways to integrate them into British life?

Surely THEY should be the ones trying their hardest to fit in to OUR way of life in Britain.

OUR being who, exactly? 3rd Generation "White" people? 5th Generation? People who aren't black or brown? People who can trace 20 generations of English born relations. People with double barreled names who's great, great Grandparent's helped build the empire?

 

[Hampden Park]

Why should WE have to look at ways to integrate them into British life?

Surely THEY should be the ones trying their hardest to fit in to OUR way of life in Britain.

here here,
when i went to numerous countries throughout my naval career we were advised (strongly) to adhere to each countries rules and regulations and not to upset the locals. we didnt find that too difficult. as the saying goes "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"

when in england do as the english do.
dont blow us up eh.......old Sir Mustapher Fag was on the telly this morning saying that his muslim people would have to look carefully at what was being preached in each and every mosque

 

[3gulls]

OUR being who, exactly? 3rd Generation "White" people? 5th Generation? People who aren't black or brown? People who can trace 20 generations of English born relations. People with double barreled names who's great, great Grandparent's helped build the empire?

Why does the British way of life need to be viewed in ethnic terms? Britishness is cultural and multi-ethnic, what is needed is for Muslims (and other minorities) to integrate into Britain's multi-ethnic society, instead of trying to change it.

 

[The Wookiee]

Why does the British way of life need to be viewed in ethnic terms? Britishness is cultural and multi-ethnic, what is needed is for Muslims (and other minorities) to integrate into Britain's multi-ethnic society, instead of trying to change it.

Exactly!!

 

[Meade's Ball]

Why does the British way of life need to be viewed in ethnic terms? Britishness is cultural and multi-ethnic, what is needed is for Muslims (and other minorities) to integrate into Britain's multi-ethnic society, instead of trying to change it.

But what does that mean?
Surely it's a constantly-evolving proposition.

 

[Dave the OAP]

This again is a difficult one which obviously LI will have a pithy answer to, however, when people move to other countries, they still tend live with communities they have...eg ex-pat communities.

In Spain, the Brits live together because people speak the same language, they have the same "culture". In this country, Aussies live in Shepherds Bush, Jews in Golders Green etc etc. Where some communities differ is that they believe that the world should change to follow their ideas of worshipping a diety.

My local vicar referrs to Muslims as the great Heretics. We tend to listen to him and dismiss him as a silly sod, however if you have influential people, such as Ayatollah's like Khomeni who actively preached hatred of all things west and have young disenfranchised men ( and it is mostly men) believing everything they say as gospel(sic) then these very people will be the ones who will commit the atrocities as they have no fear of dying.

In a multi-cultural society you will have people who will use that very principal to peddle their bile.

I still think this will not go away. we just have to accept that more people will die horribly, and we just have to hope we are not sat next to some nutter, the problem is we do not know who these people are...they do not wear uniforms!!!

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

The opposite is true - they need to start speaking in favour of radicalism far more, so the anger of the youth can be drawn into democratic processes and away from criminal ones.

I don't think anyone should be speaking in favour of murder love.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Strange old world.

Iran perhaps the most Islamic of the Islamic countries has somewhere in the region of 20,000 Jews living there, a fair number have left sinse the late seventies yet those left still refuse to go to Isreal as they think the law of return is bollocks.There Jews .. but Iranian jews .. and proud of where they live.
Zarkawi and his Insurgents have killed more Iraqi's in the last year than the whole of the UK and US put together. The US has killed more foriegn insurgents than Iraqi insurgents. The reason there are no bomb blasts in Basra is simply down to the fact that the Shia will 'kill' anyone they suspect of being an insurgent. This is due to the fact that Zakawi is a Sunni Muslim who likes nothing better than butchering his fellow man especially if he is a Shia.

One complaint is that we in the west have a low regard for Musilm (or for that matter any other non-whites) lives ... obviously not as low as Zakawi has for his fellow muslim.

In pakistan Sunni v Shia conflict has cost over 2000 lives in the last couple of years.

BNP .. bunch of *&^%$

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Well I've managed to read of all this and I'm sure most of you know where I stand on this issue. A few days ago on a similar thread I started to question whether my fellow Seagulls supporters were more than media-led sheep. You all (well 95% of you) have proved that on this thread that you're not. Reading this makes me proud that thought-provoking discussion can take place amongst the best football supporters in the country.

I am married to a muslim (one who drinks alcohol and wears bikinis but also respects ramadan) who was sickened by what was done in the name of her religion and she is a representative of a world religion where the majority believe in living in peace. The fact that the terrorist majority can potentially pigeonhole her and threaten the future of her British born children, those same children who will be English and proud to be so (and 100% BRIGHTON SUPPORTERS!) concerns her greatly. She has every right to feel that she is safe in this country.. a country she is proud to call her home. For her sake and for the many British-born Muslims we should think first and look a our own British house before we throw stones at others.

One of my colleagues was lost during the bombings... the people who have done this are sad dillusioned young people who threw their lives (and others) away because someone brainwashed them in the name of religion. It is.... it is still a crime... pure and simple, what religion does not matter..... equally horrendous things have been done in the name of christianity, of any religion, of any belief or any country.

 

[3gulls]

But what does that mean?
Surely it's a constantly-evolving proposition.

Exactly, it will change over time by evolution, for example our adoption of afro-caribean "street culture" and music, rather than by revolution.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Exactly, it will change over time by evolution, for example our adoption of afro-caribean "street culture" and music, rather than by revolution.

So if you welcome change, what exactly are you trying to hang onto? What do you want to preserve?

 

[sullyupthewing]

So if you welcome change, what exactly are you trying to hang onto? What do you want to preserve?

Cod and Chips

 

[3gulls]

So if you welcome change, what exactly are you trying to hang onto? What do you want to preserve?

Well, let me start with the British pub serving alcohol, women having equal rights to men, christianity, red London busses, the London Underground, a safe society without the fear of some mad muslim setting-off a bomb, our banking system.... .... ....

 

[The Wookiee]

BNP .. bunch of *&^%$

I am not familar with the BNP's policies and there stance on immigration etc and in fact there whole political agenda.

As you have such a strong opinion on them, perhaps you could enlighten me?

Thanks