[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

[tedebear]

His rhetoric is gaining traction because this is what people want to hear. Trump has the backing of some much darker far right forces behind him - including amongst high ranking members of the Republican Party.

I think you are missing the sublety here. He is telling them WHAT they want to hear as if to say this is WHAT I want you to be angry about. As very distinctly opposed to telling someone what THEY want to hear, ie they already have an agenda and Trump is talking their talk. An example is the migrants are eating peoples pets in Atlanta.....the whole MAGA ship now believes that migrants are to blame for everything. Who created that?

This creating then owning of the narrative, is Facism and Trump has this in spades, its a fascinating topic. Its also has hallmarks of a Dictator who goes along the lines of "over there is a bad man, I tell you she's a bad person and so she is a bad person", and his followers moronically parrot back "there is the bad person, we hate the bad person" and the vitriol continues.

Do not think for a moment that most MAGA supporters had a view to start with. They are being used, like cannon fodder.

 

[sparkie]

He is a citizen of the world

He is a fisherman of the world casting his line at will.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Anyone who believes anything Trump says is a mug. The guy rambles about nonsense, failed with his main promises last time around and - let's not forget - has plenty of history of spouting rubbish. Add into that he's a convicted felon and had numerous other cases hanging over him and I can't see how so many people hold him in such cult-like status.

But then I'm not American, so who knows what they think. Not a lot, based on some of the interviews I've seen

 

[Zeberdi]

I think you are missing the sublety here. He is telling them WHAT they want to hear as if to say this is WHAT I want you to be angry about. As very distinctly opposed to telling someone what THEY want to hear, ie they already have an agenda and Trump is talking their talk. An example is the migrants are eating peoples pets in Atlanta.....the whole MAGA ship now believes that migrants are to blame for everything. Who created that?

This creating then owning of the narrative, is Facism and Trump has this in spades, its a fascinating topic. Its also has hallmarks of a Dictator who goes along the lines of "over there is a bad man, I tell you she's a bad person and so she is a bad person", and his followers moronically parrot back "there is the bad person, we hate the bad person" and the vitriol continues.

Do not think for a moment that most MAGA supporters had a view to start with. They are being used, like cannon fodder.

I refer you to my earlier posts.

I’m not missing anything - it’s that it’s all been said before on this thread ad nauseam and whether or not Trump is a fascist is very much still open to debate - he’s not (yet!) advocating the extermination of 6m Jews or the genocide of all latinos and he is also not himself a conviction politician- he is an opportunistic leader of a movement.

Anyone thinking however that this is all about Trump - it isn’t. It is foolish and a very simplified version of reality in the States to say it is. Trump is the visible face of undercurrents far more disturbing imo.

Trump is being used by the far right because he is a flawed, narcissist fool who wants nothing but power and money - he is a useful mouthpiece for the Bannon and Putins of this world because they know how to appeal to his vanity..

People ignore the zeitgeist that makes it possible for populist leaders to gain support at their peril.

You should probably do some background research into the hedge fund tycoons (eg Robert Mercer) , the military contractors (eg Blackwater) and the lobby groups (including QAnon) that Trump has brought together as a movement - these extreme domestic/foreign policy agendas were already there before his Presidency or candidacy, as was the queue of foreign leaders lining up to hoping use the easily manipulated Trump (by appealing to his vanity) to gain influence in American foreign policy including Russia, Israel, Qatar, Hungary and Saudi Arabia …

With Suleimani Assassination, Trump Is Doing the Bidding of Washington’s Most Vile Cabal

There’s no justification for assassinating foreign officials, including Qassim Soleimani. This is an aggressive act of war by the United States.

theintercept.com

Blackwater (company) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nuances.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

That sounds extremely unlikely my friend, where are you doing your research?

Its fairly common knowledge and been going on under Democrat presidents for years..

Here’s Why The Bulk Of Afghan Refugees Are Heading To Purple States

The U.S. ended its combat mission in Afghanistan last month and the government is now preparing to relocate thousands of Afghan refugees in swing states.

dailycaller.com

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/571125-biden-asks-for-funding-to-help-bring-95000-afghans-to-us/

Recent

Biden administration ADMITS illegal migrant secret flying program

Joe Biden's administration releases information on transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. which could cause national security 'vulnerabilities' - and won't disclose where they are being flown.

www.dailymail.co.uk

General search.

Yandex

Finds everything

yandex.com

 

[tedebear]

I refer you to my earlier posts.

I’m not missing anything

You are, and thats ok. Didn't need an epic dissertation with some thinly veiled put downs though.

 

[Zeberdi]

Trump is talking their talk. An example is the migrants are eating peoples pets in Atlanta.....the whole MAGA ship now believes that migrants are to blame for everything. Who created that?

You are, and thats ok. Didn't need an epic dissertation with some thinly veiled put downs though.

I refer you again to previous posts I have made to this thread. I have never minimised the impact Trump
has. I am now saying what is going on in the US it is more complex and nuanced than just focussing the criticism of Trump.

Your example btw of immigrants eating cats and dogs - that was not started by Trump ( or his campaign) as you suggest but by a private citizen posting on Facebook.

The post was screenshotted and had already gone viral on social media, with the rumour picked up by Elon Musk, Texas senator Ted Cruz, Conservative pundit Charlie Kirk and right-wing activist Jack Posobiec.

Vance then started announcing it from the podium.

Trump then repeated during the TV debate it because he saw the story about the rumour being broadcast on TV. (by his own admission )

Im not saying you are wrong to criticise Trump - Read the first post on this thread - I have been doing that for several years but IMO people are not seeing the whole picture if they think the deep divide in the American electorate and the polarisation of politics in the US is all down to Trump. It is not. There are far right powers ( elected and unelected ) and interests that have supported him for years because he is willing to carry forward their agenda in exchange for political support and funding to get him into power.

Trump is not a conviction politician but a narcissistic and vain glorious man who seeks fame and fortune and is willing to get into bed with whomever will bolster his campaign and keep him out of jail.

 

[tedebear]

I refer you again to previous posts I have made to this thread - already saying what you said above. I am now saying what is going on in the US it is more complex and nuanced than just focussing the criticism of Trump.

Your example btw of immigrants eating cats and dogs - that was not started by Trump ( or his campaign) as you suggest but by a private citizen posting on Facebook.

The post was screenshotted and had already gone viral on social media, with the rumour picked up by Elon Musk, Texas senator Ted Cruz, Conservative pundit Charlie Kirk and right-wing activist Jack Posobiec.

Trump then repeated it because he saw the story about the rumour being broadcast on TV. (by his own admission )

Im not saying you are wrong to criticise Trump - Read the first post on this thread - I have been doing that for several years but IMO people are not seeing the whole picture if they think the deep divide in the American electorate and the polarisation of politics in the US is all down to Trump. It is not. There are far right powers ( elected and unelected ) and interests that have supported him for years because he is willing to carry forward their agenda in exchange for political support and funding to get him into power.

Trump is not a conviction politician but a narcissistic and vain glorious man who seeks fame and fortune and is willing to get into bed with whomever will bolster his campaign and keep him out of jail.

He’s as thick as Shlte frankly and can barely string a coherent sentence together on policy - no one could possibly believe he is the original author of his own policies on anything.

He is a clear and very present danger but he is only the tip of the iceberg of a neo-conservative movement that has been building in the US since at least before his first Presidency in 2016.

My relatives in the States - particularly those who work for the Democratic Party and those who are journalists will testify to that.

Sorry but no. TLDR and again missed my point, which I'd like to discuss not yours.

Its like if someone asks their mother for toast for breakfast, and she responds with 50 reasons why toast is not what you want nor should you have it.

 

[tedebear]

Not sure why you want to turn this into a personal attack on my posting behaviour - or try and insist that I don’t know what I am talking about - there are hundred of posts on this thread where I have accused Trump of stirring up hatred and dog whistling. I find it absurd that you think I am ‘missing’ that . You started this by putting me down and suggesting I was ‘missing’ what Trump is - if You actually follow the thread you would have known that is not the case

Anyway your comments here are enough for me to not wish to engage with you any further in this thread - you clearly want to play to the gallery for likes and bait a personal row and I honestly can be bothered with your petty games.

Enjoy your day.

Seriously? Personal attack? Playing for the gallery? Baiting? Petty games? Wow...I did debate trying to talk to you....obviously wrong move on my part.

 

[Zeberdi]

An Israeli attack on Iran's oil bases could have massive repercussions - and may help Trump's chances of winning election

Israel is keeping the world guessing as to when and exactly how it will strike Iran - but one development may give clues over the timing.

news.sky.com

Moving on and back on topic

If anyone needs reminding that Trump has the backing of those with an agenda to attack Iran need look no further than Netanyahu.

This is why Trump imo is such a danger to global security - this stance on Iran and Netanyahu support for Trump goes back to 2016.

We should also be asking how and why Russia has supported a Trump presidency too - and what Trump’s policy towards Ukraine is likely to be?

 

[Eeyore]

Let's give dingo and Lasv a moment to respond...

View attachment 190220

I'm trying to work out which previous poster Dingo is an incarnation of.

 

[bhafc99]

Would you let Trump be your childs teacher? No

Would you let Trump anywhere near your daughter? Take her out for dinner? No
Do you think Presidents need to be good role models? Yes
Should convicted criminals be Presidents? No
Do you think Trump tells the Truth? No
Is Trump Racist? Yes

Will you vote for Trump? Yes
Why? Because Hunter Biden had a laptop

You forgot a few more…

I'm trying to work out which previous poster Dingo is an incarnation of.

Tyrone Biggums

 

[bhafc99]

Err, no idea what happened there, the last bit of that message was the only bit I meant to post.

 

[Bodian]

Its fairly common knowledge and been going on under Democrat presidents for years..

Here’s Why The Bulk Of Afghan Refugees Are Heading To Purple States

The U.S. ended its combat mission in Afghanistan last month and the government is now preparing to relocate thousands of Afghan refugees in swing states.

dailycaller.com

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/571125-biden-asks-for-funding-to-help-bring-95000-afghans-to-us/

Recent

Biden administration ADMITS illegal migrant secret flying program

Joe Biden's administration releases information on transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. which could cause national security 'vulnerabilities' - and won't disclose where they are being flown.

www.dailymail.co.uk

General search.

Yandex

Finds everything

yandex.com

From your first article:

"Arizona, which Biden won by 0.3 points, is expected to receive 1,610 refugees. Georgia, which Biden won by 0.2 points, is expected to receive 1,069 refugees. North Carolina, which Biden won by 1.4 points, is expected to receive 1,169 refugees. Michigan, which Biden won by 2.8 points, is expected to receive 1,280 refugees."

That's out of "The White House informed governors and mayors Wednesday that the first group of refugees — numbered at around 37,000 — are expected to be resettled in the coming weeks. California will receive the largest number at around 5,300 refugees, and Texas will receive the next largest number at around 4,500, according to State Department data obtained by Axios."

So - not actually 'the bulk' going to the purple states after all. More are going to other states. Seems quite spread around.

And from India Today: "Over 40% of naturalised voters in Nevada, Arizona and Georgia call themselves Democrats, as well as more than a third of voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida," read the NPR report." So - not even a majority of those people you are concerned about are going to vote Democrat anyway. Doesn't seem much like your concerns hold much water.

Are Democrats stealing US presidential election through illegal immigrants?

The difference between winning and losing a swing state in the US, at times, is a matter of just 20,000 votes. Republicans have alleged that the Democratic administration of Joe Biden-Kamala Harris is naturalising illegal immigrants at a record rate to swing battleground states in their favour...

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Triggaaar]

You forgot a few more…

Tyrone Biggums

You've accidentally made it look like you've quoted me, but used someone else's post

 

[Zeberdi]

From your first article:

"Arizona, which Biden won by 0.3 points, is expected to receive 1,610 refugees. Georgia, which Biden won by 0.2 points, is expected to receive 1,069 refugees. North Carolina, which Biden won by 1.4 points, is expected to receive 1,169 refugees. Michigan, which Biden won by 2.8 points, is expected to receive 1,280 refugees."

That's out of "The White House informed governors and mayors Wednesday that the first group of refugees — numbered at around 37,000 — are expected to be resettled in the coming weeks. California will receive the largest number at around 5,300 refugees, and Texas will receive the next largest number at around 4,500, according to State Department data obtained by Axios."

So - not actually 'the bulk' going to the purple states after all. More are going to other states. Seems quite spread around.

And from India Today: "Over 40% of naturalised voters in Nevada, Arizona and Georgia call themselves Democrats, as well as more than a third of voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida," read the NPR report." So - not even a majority of those people you are concerned about are going to vote Democrat anyway. Doesn't seem much like your concerns hold much water.

Are Democrats stealing US presidential election through illegal immigrants?

The difference between winning and losing a swing state in the US, at times, is a matter of just 20,000 votes. Republicans have alleged that the Democratic administration of Joe Biden-Kamala Harris is naturalising illegal immigrants at a record rate to swing battleground states in their favour...

www.indiatoday.in

All true. Bearing in mind though, refugees cannot vote. The refugee numbers are therefore irrelevant (unless they actually cause a back lash against immigration which would favour the Republicans)

And as far as Michigan is concerned (with the largest Arab-American population in the US) , the naturalised migrant demographic of Michigan has actually worked against the Democrats because of the Biden administrations support for Israel.

Unless Harris shows clear blue sky on Gaza between her and the President, some 100,000 votes could be at risk. Difficulty though is she cannot be seen as VP to be contradicting Biden.

Michigan vote tests anger over Biden's Israel policy

Voters in the critical swing state have been organising for months behind a push to oust Joe Biden.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Its fairly common knowledge and been going on under Democrat presidents for years..

Here’s Why The Bulk Of Afghan Refugees Are Heading To Purple States

The U.S. ended its combat mission in Afghanistan last month and the government is now preparing to relocate thousands of Afghan refugees in swing states.

dailycaller.com

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/571125-biden-asks-for-funding-to-help-bring-95000-afghans-to-us/

Recent

Biden administration ADMITS illegal migrant secret flying program

Joe Biden's administration releases information on transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. which could cause national security 'vulnerabilities' - and won't disclose where they are being flown.

www.dailymail.co.uk

General search.

Yandex

Finds everything

yandex.com

There's a MASSIVE flaw in your post - the Democrats can fly in as many illegal immigrants they like. They still can't vote. Which somewhat shows your statements and Trumps for what they are .... lies.

 

[Bodian]

There's a MASSIVE flaw in your post - the Democrats can fly in as many illegal immigrants they like. They still can't vote. Which somewhat shows your statements and Trumps for what they are .... lies.

I think what they're saying is that they are also rushing through naturalisation. So, they won't be illegal immigrants then.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

From your first article:

"Arizona, which Biden won by 0.3 points, is expected to receive 1,610 refugees. Georgia, which Biden won by 0.2 points, is expected to receive 1,069 refugees. North Carolina, which Biden won by 1.4 points, is expected to receive 1,169 refugees. Michigan, which Biden won by 2.8 points, is expected to receive 1,280 refugees."

That's out of "The White House informed governors and mayors Wednesday that the first group of refugees — numbered at around 37,000 — are expected to be resettled in the coming weeks. California will receive the largest number at around 5,300 refugees, and Texas will receive the next largest number at around 4,500, according to State Department data obtained by Axios."

So - not actually 'the bulk' going to the purple states after all. More are going to other states. Seems quite spread around.

And from India Today: "Over 40% of naturalised voters in Nevada, Arizona and Georgia call themselves Democrats, as well as more than a third of voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida," read the NPR report." So - not even a majority of those people you are concerned about are going to vote Democrat anyway. Doesn't seem much like your concerns hold much water.

Are Democrats stealing US presidential election through illegal immigrants?

The difference between winning and losing a swing state in the US, at times, is a matter of just 20,000 votes. Republicans have alleged that the Democratic administration of Joe Biden-Kamala Harris is naturalising illegal immigrants at a record rate to swing battleground states in their favour...

www.indiatoday.in

A disproportionate amount given relative populations. So how many call themselves republicans?

 

[Crawley Dingo]

There's a MASSIVE flaw in your post - the Democrats can fly in as many illegal immigrants they like. They still can't vote. Which somewhat shows your statements and Trumps for what they are .... lies.

They vote when naturalised in about 4 years or as fast as possible. So even have voting ballots.