[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

 

[jessiejames]

Disagree. It’s vital for Europe to have as many countries in its coalition as possible. We are potentially heading for Trump & Putin standing opposite Europe.

Partly agree, but fighting 2 madmen at a time who as it looks are happy to work together over what is going to happen to Ukraine makes no sense. Stand back regroup make Europe and NATO stronger start again. This is what I think will happen. Putin gets Ukraine, turns a blind eye to Trump going after Canada and Greenland.

 

[peterward]

That is a worryingly specific metaphor

Purely made up, but meant to signify the abusive relationship a victim finds themselves in.

 

[peterward]

Partly agree, but fighting 2 madmen at a time who as it looks are happy to work together over what is going to happen to Ukraine makes no sense. Stand back regroup make Europe and NATO stronger start again. This is what I think will happen. Putin gets Ukraine, turns a blind eye to Trump going after Canada and Greenland.

Out of respect, You couldn't be more wrong or short sighted imho.

It was Churchill who said "an appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile in the hope it will eat him last"

Theres a whiff of the Neville Chamberlain in your outlook!

Russia is a fascist imperialist nation who have openly stated these past 3 years, they won't stop at Ukraine. They follow no signed accords and they have attacked multiple countries... imperialism, death and conquest in in their DNA. Right now Ukrainian blood has decimated their military as sanctions/war have their economy.

It is infinitely better to deal with this head on now, with a severely weakened Russia and a motivated, battled hardened Ukrainain ally willing to fight on your side, And keep that fight away from NATOs border.

Any capitulation deal or allowing Russia to regroup, rearm and go again, and probably taking all Ukraine, its resources and military, guarantees the cost of dealing with the issue will be many times higher and a lot more bloody. Learn from History.

That's not to say that peace isn't the best option, it is, but it must be a peace that stops Russia going again, not just a temporary cessation of shooting, else much bigger problems are ahead and we won't be immune from it

 

[Eeyore]

I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about the state visit offered to Trump. I can see what Starmer is doing, but I wonder if that was needed now.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Yes please,,,, EVERY organisation that we would not have Russia in, are the organisations Europe (plus Oz etc) should exclude the US from. Just work around them and isolate them.

Not possible - or desirable. The Us is the most important country in the world - financially, militarily and culturally. The last time America isolated itself from the rest of the world in the 1930s it didn't end so well.

 

[SweatyMexican]

Partly agree, but fighting 2 madmen at a time who as it looks are happy to work together over what is going to happen to Ukraine makes no sense. Stand back regroup make Europe and NATO stronger start again. This is what I think will happen. Putin gets Ukraine, turns a blind eye to Trump going after Canada and Greenland.

—
Fighting 2 madmen at a time who as it looks are happy to work together over what is going to happen to Czechoslovakia makes no sense. Stand back regroup make Europe stronger start again. This is what I think will happen. Hitler gets the Sudetenland, turns a blind eye to Mussolini going after Albania and Ethiopia.
—

The similarities are shocking. We must make a stand.

 

[fly high]

I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about the state visit offered to Trump. I can see what Starmer is doing, but I wonder if that was needed now.

At the time it was seen as a good way to get him on our side but not now. Also may not mean so much to him, apparently pissed off when he saw photo of Zelensky with the King, not so special after all especially when you know it was a genuinely personal invite from the King.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Partly agree, but fighting 2 madmen at a time who as it looks are happy to work together over what is going to happen to Ukraine makes no sense. Stand back regroup make Europe and NATO stronger start again. This is what I think will happen. Putin gets Ukraine, turns a blind eye to Trump going after Canada and Greenland.

And this highlights the difficult position Europe may now be facing. They need to act fast and buy themselves time. But Putin with Ukraine is stronger still.

Does Britain stand by while Trump goes after Canada? Not sure our head of state would be too pleased with that.

 

[fly high]

And this highlights the difficult position Europe may now be facing. They need to act fast and buy themselves time. But Putin with Ukraine is stronger still.

And how many Ukrainians will be forced to become part of Russia's meat grinder

 

[SouthSaxon]

And how many Ukrainians will be forced to become part of Russia's meat grinder

As many of them as Putin desires, excepting those already murdered for his pleasure.

 

[raymondo]

If Zelensky follows the Trump path, then I think we should just walkaway from helping Ukraine along with NATO doing the same.

Even if Zelenskiy signs the minerals deal, I wouldn't choose to see that as Zelenskiy and Ukraine following the Trump path (which seems to be let Putin do what he wants) - it just wouldn't be that.
It would be because Zelenskiy feels there is SOME merit in it, SOME continuation of aid and support from the US that Ukraine desperately needs e.g. Patriot defense missiles.

But IMO, I can't imagine after all the shit of the past few weeks that there's going to be anything in that deal for Ukraine's protection, other than some vague words that "Putin wouldn't dare attack if there's US contractors on Ukrainian soil." ...bull shit of course.

 

[raymondo]

It's a brilliant speech. European political leaders should watch it morning and night, daily, as a reminder of what is needed.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Even if Zelenskiy signs the minerals deal, I wouldn't choose to see that as Zelenskiy and Ukraine following the Trump path (which seems to be let Putin do what he wants) - it just wouldn't be that.
It would be because Zelenskiy feels there is SOME merit in it, SOME continuation of aid and support from the US that Ukraine desperately needs e.g. Patriot defense missiles.

But IMO, I can't imagine after all the shit of the past few weeks that there's going to be anything in that deal for Ukraine's protection, other than some vague words that "Putin wouldn't dare attack if there's US contractors on Ukrainian soil." ...bull shit of course.

Trump is already reported as telling aides that if Zelenskyy signs the deal it won’t be enough to restart the aid and intelligence sharing.

The only incentive he has to sign it is to prevent further vindictiveness, which seems unavoidable either way.

At this stage, he’s better off refusing - Trump is doing this because he’s realised what he thought would be easy to achieve is actually not possible. So now he’s trying to bully Ukraine because he’s obviously not going to try that with Putin.

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree..... like a husband that beats his Mrs whilst openly shagging the abusive next door neighbour, is now telling you.....

if you ever want to eat again, you have to first make me exactly the dinner I want, in the way the next door neighbour prefers it cooked, but im not telling you what that is and I reserve the right to change it anyway.

I'm not even going to attempt to understand that

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

They do it on purpose Lynn!

Sounds like a catchphrase, but sadly has gone over my head!

 

[Eric the meek]

Of all the war crimes the Russians have committed, this is right up there.

Their sense of entitlement and absence of empathy is incomprehensible. Unfathomable.

 

[beorhthelm]

Trump is already reported as telling aides that if Zelenskyy signs the deal it won’t be enough to restart the aid and intelligence sharing.

The only incentive he has to sign it is to prevent further vindictiveness, which seems unavoidable either way.

At this stage, he’s better off refusing - Trump is doing this because he’s realised what he thought would be easy to achieve is actually not possible. So now he’s trying to bully Ukraine because he’s obviously not going to try that with Putin.

why would Trump be saying that, why would aides being leaking it? seems a lot of reporting is reinforcing preconceptions. this one doesn't make any sense, if Trump doesn't want to support Ukraine he can simply stop supporting them (as apparently has done) and face the consequenes. if he does the mineral deal, and doesn't support Ukraine, US is seen as a dishonest broker and untrustworthy. eitherway, how does Trump benefit?

 

[portslade seagull]

I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about the state visit offered to Trump. I can see what Starmer is doing, but I wonder if that was needed now.

Apparently Trumpster isn't very happy that Zelensky has met the king before him. Will probably throw his rattle out of the pram and not come

 

[raymondo]

Read the first reply from a Norwegian, very wide impacts and repercussions from Trump's dictats. #isolateamerica