[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[astralavi]

This is escalating horribly

 

[SouthSaxon]

And even if it could, what does that mean? There was no deal to be made before Russia invaded. Russia said 'everything's fine, we're not invading'. So with Russia promising not to invade, you think Ukraine should have said 'Well we know you're not invading, but how about we give you a chunk of our country anyway?'

I get and agree with all of that. Trump may not. As I said, it doesn’t matter much either way.

 

[Triggaaar]

Almost not even worth engaging with him.

I know what you mean, but I don't think it's helpful to leave the bullshit unchallenged. Casual viewers may pop along and think 'oh yeah'. It's Russian propaganda. The Russians keep pushing it for a reason. If enough people keep pushing the lies, people might eventually start to believe them.

Well I ain't standin' for it.

 

[Ali_rrr]

I know what you mean, but I don't think it's helpful to leave the bullshit unchallenged. Casual viewers may pop along and think 'oh yeah'. It's Russian propaganda. The Russians keep pushing it for a reason. If enough people keep pushing the lies, people might eventually start to believe them.

Well I ain't standin' for it.

Fair point!

 

[raymondo]

Russia don’t have the finance, infrastructure, equipment or manpower to beat Ukraine so not sure having a scrap with someone else is an option.
This is about supporting Ukraine against Putin.

I thought that's what I said

 

[raymondo]

I get and agree with all of that. Trump may not. As I said, it doesn’t matter much either way.

There's a truth there... Trump has no interest in facts

 

[Wozza]

Great...

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I thought that's what I said

I’m easily confused

 

[raymondo]

I’m easily confused

 

[Pavilionaire]

1) I would wager you would turbo charge the British economy by significantly reducing energy costs. Industrial energy costs here are higher than our European peers, domestically we are top 5. We know why costs here are high, so sorting that out should be priority No1.

2) Spending cuts are going to be needed to redirect money to defence which means ending all foreign aid, asylum costs etc. pdq.

There are plenty of others cuts that can be made, as Trump is proving in the US. As of a recent UGov poll (17/2) only 6% supported increase in taxes to pay for defence.

3) Rather than rejoin the EU, the other European countries in the EU need to decide if the EU can continue as is, the organisational costs and current MO is not going to work on multiple levels and especially with a US moving to a tariff free model on importing/exporting goods.

Given the threat from Russia is existential, maybe they need to consider whether NATO member countries with 5% of GDP can trade freely.

If Starmer had balls he would insist on it.

1. I know that if everyone ignores climate change and a move away from fossil fuels doesn't happen fast it won't matter who controls Ukraine as we'll all be f*cked anyway.

2. You talk about cuts as the only way to meet our financial obligations. I'd argue under 14 years of austerity / lack of investment everything's been cut to the bone. It is a fact our GDP has declined, trade is down with the EU and everyone agrees bar an intransigent minority - that Brexit is responsible for a 4-5% drop in GDP, year on year.

3. You'll note I'm not calling to rejoin the EU at this juncture - that would take too long. I'm merely calling for a Customs Union, which would be quicker to implement (given the need for Europe to harmonise stuff now in the wake of Trump's defection). What I do know if that there is a list of 9 candidate countries waiting to join the EU (including former Soviet state Georgia) with all of the rest bar Turkiye former communist countries. Ask them which is working better for them - the EU or Russia.

4. Starmer has looked statesmanlike and is doing a good job of representing British values thus far. It chills me to the bone to consider what Trump-loving Farage would be saying right now if PM - he'd probably do whatever Trump wanted and for whatever crumbs of the mineral / rebuild deal blew off the table. And don't get me started on Badenoch.

 

[Triggaaar]

Great...

A lot of words, and not a single one right.

I want to boycott everything American until Trump changes his stance.

 

[Bodian]

Can they not be read as a bungled attempt at saying Ukraine should have made a deal before Russia invaded?

I don’t know, I don’t think it matters much. The positive of all this is that it leaves all of Europe in no doubt that Trump’s US cannot be relied on for anything.

Yes, but there are several interpretations. Whether they matter depends on which one you favour.

1. He meant it exactly as it was delivered.
2. He meant it as you have described.
3. He's angry at Zelensky rejecting his first offer ('which was a very fair offer, a beautiful offer, let me tell you').
4. He's bullying Zelensky so that he accepts Trump's next and final offer.
5. It's all a masquerade. Which Zelensky may or may not be in on. The problem I have is the B-52s. Why are they here?

Great...

Not quite sure whether that provides an answer or not.

Unbelievable that the President of the US is behaving this way.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Great...

This could be the darkest thing that Trump has posted in his few weeks in Office but he has already proposed the forced relocation of Gazans so America can build a coastal resort in the Holy Land so

 

[fly high]

A lot of words, and not a single one right.

I want to boycott everything American until Trump changes his stance.

The bloke is a complete fuckwit who spouts any sort of bollocks to suit his narrative.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This is escalating horribly

What I find worrying is that Trump's advisors do not appear to be educating their man on anything about the war - past, present or future.

The 4% Zelenskiy approval rating comment was parroted straight from Russia, as was Ukraine being responsible for starting the war. It is well known that the actual approval rating is around 57%.

In addition, his comments about Ukraine having to give up some land because 'a lot of Russians have fought and died for that land' is also straight from Moscow. He doesn't appear to have considered the loss of life on the Ukrainian side and - like Gaza - he doesn't appear to understand this is people's birthplace and homeland that they are existentially attached to. He regards it like it's moving house.

Trump's latest post on X laying into Zelenskyy is a new low, even for him.

This week has been the most seismic shift in global politics since 9/11. Starmer recent comments about this being a generational moment is spot on, and next week's meeting with Trump in Washington could make or break NATO.

 

[Triggaaar]

The bloke is a complete fuckwit who spouts any sort of bollocks to suit his narrative.

Is America really going to stand by and watch him and Musk destroy their country?

 

[raymondo]

This could be the darkest thing that Trump has posted in his few weeks in Office but he has already proposed the forced relocation of Gazans so America can build a coastal resort in the Holy Land so

True, he's been consistent.

 

[Jim in the West]

We're getting pretty close to the point where the US is actually our enemy. I've always thought there are a lot of VERY strange people in the US, and unfortunately it appears that most of them have gravitated to the upper echelons of the Republican party - and think they can basically tell the rest of the world what to do.

 

[Home and Away]

Is he just Putin's errand boy?

 

[The Oldman]

Observant posters will see I have changed my avatar from John Wayne to my Albion cap. I just cannot bring myself to look kindly on the USA at the moment so Wayne’s hat has to go. The latest outbursts from Trump are frightening.