[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Dorset Seagull]

Ukraine are at the moment

Yes with the support of the US

 

[Hugo Rune]

I'm absolutely fine with Starmer's comments. He's showing strength rather that weakness.

If he's given the binary choice on would the UK provide troops, yes or no - one answer shows strength and the other is a bit pathetic. He's not actually committed troops to do anything, he's just saying that we support Ukraine, stand against Russia, and will continue to do so.

Meanwhile Trump is having his belly tickled.

I think people are confusing Starmer firing pre-negotiation shots into the air with some sort of developed plan or strategy. The Russians have done the same with talk of NATO troops on the ground. As you say, he is showing support for Ukraine, nothing more, nothing less.

The real negotiations will happen soon. The red lines will be parroted by the media from all sides but it’s really a question of how the five dominant sides can meet their objectives.

1. USA: How much money can Trump family/friends make from business deals in Ukraine. How many contracts will they be guaranteed and how much land will they be given?

2. USA: What sort of peace will get Trump his Nobel Peace Prize?

3. Ukraine: How long can Ukraine last without American support? What sort of ‘bad deal’ could they be forced to accept?

4. Ukraine: How much do Ukraine value lives over land?

5. Russia: How can Putin be given a reasonable narrative to claim victory back home?

6. Russia: How soon will sanctions on Russia be lifted so they can re-arm and the oligarchs be placated?

7. Europe/EU: How can these countries guarantee security without the support from a now isolationist USA?

8. Europe/EU: Will these countries take over the majority of funding and arms supplies to Ukraine whilst USA withdraws?

9. Europe/EU: How much do they want/need Ukraine in NATO or the EU? Is this a deal breaker?

10. China: How much can the USA, Russia, Ukraine, Europe & NATO be weakened further by this war to their benefit?

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes with the support of the US

And with just as much support from Europe.

 

[portlock seagull]

From which countries would the peace keeping force be from.




No one is saying close diplomatic channels. But if there's enough force in place to stop Russia, then they'll stop, and if there isn't, then they'll break all agreements. Agreements mean nothing to Russia.

Whichever the UN advises I suppose, they’re better placed to answer!

 

[portlock seagull]

Perhaps we should properly tax the super rich like they did after 1945. That brought in a lot of money. Can't imagine why anyone needs billions of pounds, anyway. The Sun could start a campaign called, 'Cough up for your Country' to get the masses on board.

Heartedly agree, although I’d rather not the National Trust take over Amazon

 

[Dorset Seagull]

And with just as much support from Europe.

If the US withdraw support they will also stop the sanctions. I suspect Ukraine and Europe will struggle to be a match for a rejuvenated Russia.

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

Fascinating podcast with Jake Broe and the incredible Caolan Robertson.
If you are in any doubt of the evil of Russia give this a watch

 

[Triggaaar]

If the US withdraw support they will also stop the sanctions.

That's not a fact. The support costs Americans (and Europeans) money. The sanctions don't. So stopping one doesn't mean stopping the other.

And Trump has said that the US will continue to support Ukraine anyway.

I suspect Ukraine and Europe will struggle to be a match for a rejuvenated Russia.

I don't.

 

[Triggaaar]

Whichever the UN advises I suppose, they’re better placed to answer!

With influence from Russia and China, I'm not sure the UN will be best placed to keep the peace.

 

[Triggaaar]

Fascinating podcast with Jake Broe and the incredible Caolan Robertson.
If you are in any doubt of the evil of Russia give this a watch

I was watching this too. Caolan echoes my feelings. Little else matters as much as this war matters. We must support Ukraine until they win.

 

[Eric the meek]

For recent joiners, here's a disturbing, dystopian example of Russian disinformation. Regulars on here will already be aware of it.

A major factor contributing to the end of Russia's involvement in the Afghan war, was soldiers' wives and mothers groups agitating for information on their missing loved ones. Some of them began legal campaigns against the soldiers' officers. The official number of deaths was 14,500.

Unofficial numbers of Russian dead in the Ukraine war so far, are unknown, but thought to exceed 500,000. The number of missing is also unknown, but the total injured and dead is running at c.860,000.

As a result of their experiences of the Afghan war, the Kremlin has created FAKE soldiers' mothers and wives groups so that real soldiers' mothers and wives whose soldier is missing, will join them, and be fed false information. This is to control the narrative and head off any awkward campaigning.

 

[portlock seagull]

For recent joiners, here's a disturbing, dystopian example of Russian disinformation. Regulars on here will already be aware of it.

A major factor contributing to the end of Russia's involvement in the Afghan war, was soldiers' wives and mothers groups agitating for information on their missing loved ones. Some of them began legal campaigns against the soldiers' officers. The official number of deaths was 14,500.

Unofficial numbers of Russian dead in the Ukraine war so far, are unknown, but thought to exceed 500,000. The number of missing is also unknown, but the total injured and dead is running at c.860,000.

As a result of their experiences of the Afghan war, the Kremlin has created FAKE soldiers' mothers and wives groups so that real soldiers' mothers and wives whose soldier is missing, will join them, and be fed false information. This is to control the narrative and head off any awkward campaigning.

Kremlin has always been a master of manipulation. I guess others are too.

Anyway, enjoyed the exchanges with you and others, and learned a few things along the way as always. Going to take some time away now however. It’s all so damned depressing and there’s almost nothing we can do about.

 

[Sirnormangall]

With influence from Russia and China, I'm not sure the UN will be best placed to keep the peace.

Remember too that the current Chair of the UN Security Council is………..Russia!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Trump's latest comments about Ukraine having had the last three years to negotiate, and many more before that, almost sound like Putin has brainwashed him in their recent 90 minute phone call.

I never thought I'd ever see the day a sitting American president backed an aggressive Russia over an oppressed former Soviet republiclike Ukraine, one that has been friendly towards the West and can contribute so much to the EU in the future.

You wonder what the likes of former great presidents FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Reagan would make of Trump's words and actions.

We all knew Trump would be bad, but THIS bad this quickly?!?

 

[osgood]

Trump's latest comments about Ukraine having had the last three years to negotiate, and many more before that, almost sound like Putin has brainwashed him in their recent 90 minute phone call.

I never thought I'd ever see the day a sitting American president backed an aggressive Russia over an oppressed former Soviet republiclike Ukraine, one that has been friendly towards the West and can contribute so much to the EU in the future.

You wonder what the likes of former great presidents FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Reagan would make of Trump's words and actions.

We all knew Trump would be bad, but THIS bad this quickly?!?

Its unbelievable isn't it ?, even to the most pessimistic of us its like the worst thing that could ever happen , has happened !
Trump seems to be totally under Russian control

 

[Insel affe]

What happens if Trump says to Putin stop the invasion (for now) you have won the lands you have there yours.
i will make sure all the oligarchs and Russian money taken or withheld by Europe is returned.
is that F’kn us over ? Is that possible

 

[indy3050]

I genuinely didn’t see this coming, I’m shocked!

 

[Binney on acid]

What happens if Trump says to Putin stop the invasion (for now) you have won the lands you have there yours.
i will make sure all the oligarchs and Russian money taken or withheld by Europe is returned.
is that F’kn us over ? Is that possible

Anything is possible with this ego centric, lobotomised orange cretin. It's beginning to look like Ukraine would have been better off to have laid red carpet 3 years ago, invited the Russian tanks in and capitulated to subjugation. Tens of thousands of lives lost and families torn apart, and we end up with the orange one being manipulated by Mr Genocide.

That's the price that Ukraine pays for Europe sleepwalking, and relying upon The States to bankroll it's defence against The Soviet war machine. The West has been in denial of the fact that it's been at war with The Russian Federation for years. I have never felt so depressed In my lifetime about what the future holds for the human race, our children, and our children's children. That is assuming that the planet we've treated with such utter contempt survives that long. The orange one is oblivious of its wonders. To him it's simply real estate containing scarce commodities to be extracted at any price. The yanks have a sad history of assassinating the wrong president.

 

[Nobby]

It doesn't matter. If Russia could have stopped Finland and Sweden joining Nato, they would have. If they can stop Ukraine joining, they will. But it doesn't have to be up to Russia. If we support Ukraine as we should, a defeat Russia as we should, then they'll be in no place to stop Ukraine joining Nato.

Exactly.
What are they going to do?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Trump and his far right cabal have always seen Putin more friend than enemy - and they’ve had to pay for Russia’s US election interference somehow. Well now the chips are well and truly on the table.