[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

Why have three B-52 bombers, complete with cargo and personnel in 2 747s and a 767, and a U-2 high altitude reconnaissance aircraft, all been deployed to Europe? (Recorded February 9 - 13, 2025).

Anyone got any ideas?

 

[fly high]

a view from Washington...

As U.S. and Putin negotiate, intel shows he's not interested 'in a real peace deal,' sources say

Intelligence suggests Russian President Vladimir Putin is going through the motions and still thinks he can eventually control all of Ukraine, the sources told NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

Think most of us know Putin just wants time to rebuild but will Trump take any notice? Probably not.

 

[Triggaaar]

Why have three B-52 bombers, complete with cargo and personnel in 2 747s and a 767, and a U-2 high altitude reconnaissance aircraft, all been deployed to Europe? (Recorded February 9 - 13, 2025).

Anyone got any ideas?

Yes. As per Trump's orders, they are about to bomb the EU and UK.

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes. As per Trump's orders, they are about to bomb the EU and UK.

It's not a great strategy to land in the place you're going to bomb though. That's Trump for you.

 

[Triggaaar]

Think most of us know Putin just wants time to rebuild but will Trump take any notice? Probably not.

For the time being, whilst Ukraine will try and keep the US on side, they must have a plan for continuing the fight without US help.

I find Trump's actions completely depressing, for Ukraine, for Europe, and for Americans. In fact, for the entire free world. But just imagine how Ukrainians are feeling right now. They've got the POTUS blaming them for the war, and playing best buddies with dictator Putin.

Ukraine need us more than ever. We (the UK, the EU, the rest of the free world (which may no longer include the US) must make it clear to them that we will support them until the end, no matter what. Ukraine are fighting for freedom on earth.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's not a great strategy to land in the place you're going to bomb though. That's Trump for you.

No it's fine, because you have to take off before you drop the bombs. 4D chess.

 

[beorhthelm]

Why have three B-52 bombers, complete with cargo and personnel in 2 747s and a 767, and a U-2 high altitude reconnaissance aircraft, all been deployed to Europe? (Recorded February 9 - 13, 2025).

Anyone got any ideas?

obviously US wanting to show something different to rhetoric. this stuff isn't by accident, and no it's not about bombing Europe

 

[Eric the meek]

obviously US wanting to show something different to rhetoric. this stuff isn't by accident, and no it's not about bombing Europe

Forgive our dark sense of humour. Sometimes we need it on here.

 

[Insel affe]

Zelensky turns now to a question about a proposal from Trump which would allow the US to take a percentage of Ukraine's rare earth minerals, including lithium and titanium.

He says he rejected it because the first draft said Ukraine would have to grant the US 50% ownership of its materials, and made no mention of the security guarantees Zelensky sought.

"I am protecting Ukraine, I can’t sell it away, I cant sell our state," he adds.

 

[Hamilton]

For the time being, whilst Ukraine will try and keep the US on side, they must have a plan for continuing the fight without US help.

I find Trump's actions completely depressing, for Ukraine, for Europe, and for Americans. In fact, for the entire free world. But just imagine how Ukrainians are feeling right now. They've got the POTUS blaming them for the war, and playing best buddies with dictator Putin.

Ukraine need us more than ever. We (the UK, the EU, the rest of the free world (which may no longer include the US) must make it clear to them that we will support them until the end, no matter what. Ukraine are fighting for freedom on earth.

Ah, but we know Trump isn't interested in the 'free' world. Democracy is a bit of a pain for him and he's been pretty public in showing his contempt for it all when he loses.

He wants to be more like Putin and Xi, not less like them.

Maybe the electorate will realise this soon and hopefully before he and Musk have changed everything to prevent free and fair elections in the USA.

It looks like democracy is on the retreat and we may be in the minority in living in one. Let's hope we don't go down the same path.

But I know I'm preaching to the converted here.

Stunning that two countries can start to negotiate a peace deal when the sovereign country that has been invaded is not even at the table. That is empire building in the extreme, and no surprise to see the Saudis at the table wanting to play a part.

 

[Hamilton]

Zelensky turns now to a question about a proposal from Trump which would allow the US to take a percentage of Ukraine's rare earth minerals, including lithium and titanium.

He says he rejected it because the first draft said Ukraine would have to grant the US 50% ownership of its materials, and made no mention of the security guarantees Zelensky sought.

"I am protecting Ukraine, I can’t sell it away, I cant sell our state," he adds.

Trump really is a f***ing disgrace and the Yanks should be f***ing up in arms.

He wants Greenland for minerals. He wants Ukraine for the same. He wants the Gulf for oil. He wants Canada for the same.

It really is time for Europe to get its shit together.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Zelensky turns now to a question about a proposal from Trump which would allow the US to take a percentage of Ukraine's rare earth minerals, including lithium and titanium.

He says he rejected it because the first draft said Ukraine would have to grant the US 50% ownership of its materials, and made no mention of the security guarantees Zelensky sought.

"I am protecting Ukraine, I can’t sell it away, I cant sell our state," he adds.

And this sums it up. Once Trump realises you can’t run a country like a business then his interest will move elsewhere.

Look at his tactics.
I want Greenland and Panama. Canada should be a US state. Everyone tells him to go forth and multiply.
next tactic is tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Both countries tell him to go forth. He suspends for one month after talks where nothing has been given or received. At the end of the month he'll say he’s got what he wants and the tariffs are no more, even though they weren’t in place.

China is another matter and something that Biden was thinking off but unfortunately for the US they love there gizmo’s which all come from China … The idea of tariffs is to get the US to bus home grown goods which they don’t have.

Ukraine is yet another fishing trip hoping that Zelensky will given in. The fact that Ukraine is still giving a Russia a bloody nose means that bumble**** isn’t going to intimidate them.
The one upside of this is that Europe now realises that militarily closer ties are a must.

 

[cunning fergus]

So today I wake up to the ITV Good Morning Britain debate on whether military Nation Service needs to be brought back, hiw inflation has climbed half a percent to 3%. I listen to commentators saying without the US in NATO our defence spending will not have to just climb by 0.2% to 2.5% but double to around 5% of GDP.

Given the new world order we are now in I don't see Starmer has any other choice than to take an emergency decision and put a Customs Union with the EU to the Commons vote, as it is the ONLY way we can afford the huge increase in military spending AND run our infrastructure, and build these hundreds of thousands of houses we need for our growing population.

Not only economically, but now is the moment to head off Trump loving Farage and his Reform Party, and kill the Brexit toxicity before it's too late and we become lost to money and Far Right like the USA.

If anyone else has an alternative plan for how we pay for all of this shit I'd love to hear it.

EU derangement syndrome is definitely at peak levels with you…..

It appears the more sensible EU leaders don’t like what Starmer is selling, it’s possible they want to avoid a destructive war with Russia.

Source: The Independent

Europe split over Starmer pledge to send troops to Ukraine

The division became clear as European leaders attended an emergency summit on Ukraine in Paris, where allies scrambled for a strategy in response to Donald Trump’s push for a deal with Putin

search.app

Too many countries in the EU are still reliant on Russian energy, including Sholz’s Germany. He’s likely out the door soon anyway with potentially a new Government influenced by AFD policy, which wants more settled relationship with Russia.

Source: the Guardian

European imports of liquefied natural gas from Russia at ‘record levels’

Rystad Energy releases data days after Ukraine stopped flows of Russian gas through its pipelines

search.app

That will place the UK’s current strategy with Ukraine at odds with Germany. Politically at home Macron is a busted flush for next 2 years and there’s the big 2. Financially and militarily no one else matters.

The EU you remember is done, finished by the kind of leadership here that bought Trump to office over there. Leadership that ignored Trump’s first presidency which told NATO countries to up their spending on defence.

They ignored him and we are reaping that whirlwind.

What Europe needs is leaders that can be honest about where they are militarily without the US, and that is no where. Peace with Russia in Ukraine is the only realistic option to suck up.

 

[Mackenzie]

And this sums it up. Once Trump realises you can’t run a country like a business then his interest will move elsewhere.

Look at his tactics.
I want Greenland and Panama. Canada should be a US state. Everyone tells him to go forth and multiply.
next tactic is tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Both countries tell him to go forth. He suspends for one month after talks where nothing has been given or received. At the end of the month he'll say he’s got what he wants and the tariffs are no more, even though they weren’t in place.

China is another matter and something that Biden was thinking off but unfortunately for the US they love there gizmo’s which all come from China … The idea of tariffs is to get the US to bus home grown goods which they don’t have.

Ukraine is yet another fishing trip hoping that Zelensky will given in. The fact that Ukraine is still giving a Russia a bloody nose means that bumble**** isn’t going to intimidate them.
The one upside of this is that Europe now realises that militarily closer ties are a must.

Not just military but economic ties too, we can’t rely on the US as trading partners. Now is the time to do this.

 

[Eric the meek]

He wants Greenland for minerals. He wants Ukraine for the same. He wants the Gulf for oil. He wants Canada for the same.

Google the Northwest passage. And how it will be ice-free in a few years.

It is a massive short cut for China to transport its shit to western markets. A short cut means lower fuel costs, and enhanced ability to undercut western manufacturers.

Greenland, Canada and Panama are all about this. The NWP goes up the west coast of Greenland and across the top of Canada. Both Greenland and Canada will soon become very rich due to fees for shipping passing through, and fees for rescues and ice-breaking.

The Chinese currently use the Panama canal as a shortcut. If Trump controls Panama, no more shortcut for China.

 

[fly high]

Ukraine latest: Zelensky says Trump 'living in disinformation space' created by Russia

The US and Russia held talks on Tuesday about the end of the war in Ukraine, with President Trump subsequently suggesting Kyiv "could have made a deal" earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk

As sensible grown up saying it as it is.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Not just military but economic ties too, we can’t rely on the US as trading partners. Now is the time to do this.

Absolutely, ironically a number of Brexiteers are complaining the Europe isn’t militarily strong enough and we should do something about it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

EU derangement syndrome is definitely at peak levels with you…..

It appears the more sensible EU leaders don’t like what Starmer is selling, it’s possible they want to avoid a destructive war with Russia.

Source: The Independent

Europe split over Starmer pledge to send troops to Ukraine

The division became clear as European leaders attended an emergency summit on Ukraine in Paris, where allies scrambled for a strategy in response to Donald Trump’s push for a deal with Putin

search.app

Too many countries in the EU are still reliant on Russian energy, including Sholz’s Germany. He’s likely out the door soon anyway with potentially a new Government influenced by AFD policy, which wants more settled relationship with Russia.

Source: the Guardian

European imports of liquefied natural gas from Russia at ‘record levels’

Rystad Energy releases data days after Ukraine stopped flows of Russian gas through its pipelines

search.app

That will place the UK’s current strategy with Ukraine at odds with Germany. Politically at home Macron is a busted flush for next 2 years and there’s the big 2. Financially and militarily no one else matters.

The EU you remember is done, finished by the kind of leadership here that bought Trump to office over there. Leadership that ignored Trump’s first presidency which told NATO countries to up their spending on defence.

They ignored him and we are reaping that whirlwind.

What Europe needs is leaders that can be honest about where they are militarily without the US, and that is no where. Peace with Russia in Ukraine is the only realistic option to suck up.

I asked the question how the UK could afford to pay for everything WITHOUT a Customs Union with the EU, and I see you haven't come up with any alternative as to how the UK foots the bill

I maintain that if we have negligible growth but now have to move from 2.3% to - probably - twice that with US an unreliable ally - then the only way we can increase our GDP relatively quickly is a Customs Union. Remember, we haven't yet heard about the tariffs Trump has in store for us that will hit our exports and our economy.

You talk about EU leaders that are about to lose power but that happens all the time as left and right come and go, and I don't see how acquiescing to Russia is an option for the EU because first Ukraine will go, then the Baltic states, Moldova, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and the EU as we know it will cease to exist.

Yet Russia's economy is fragile and the war is sucking up manpower, leaving their economy short at home. Inflation is at 10%, interest rates are 21% so nobody can afford to borrow, so there is no private sector investment and ordinary people are feeling it domestically.

If Trump were so minded, the USA and Saudi could up oil production and use this and sanctions to reduce demand for Russian oil, which would be a huge problem for Putin. The combined economies of the NATO countries blow Russia's out of the water, Russia's economy is a fraction of China's.

The one point I agree with you on is that both the UK and the EU countries - with the exception of Poland - have been complacent militarily, but that doesn't mean that they are "nowhere".

 

[Cordwainer]

Ukraine latest: Zelensky says Trump 'living in disinformation space' created by Russia

The US and Russia held talks on Tuesday about the end of the war in Ukraine, with President Trump subsequently suggesting Kyiv "could have made a deal" earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk

As sensible grown up saying it as it is.

Does seem to be the only one in the room quite often. Wonder what he, as an ex comedian, feels about dealing with possibly the two biggest jokers in world politics.

 

[Triggaaar]

EU derangement syndrome is definitely at peak levels with you…..

It appears the more sensible EU leaders don’t like what Starmer is selling, it’s possible they want to avoid a destructive war with Russia.

You're reading too much into it, it's just talks about a possible peacekeeping force, and that's not a prospect while the war continues.

The EU you remember is done, finished by the kind of leadership here that bought Trump to office over there. Leadership that ignored Trump’s first presidency which told NATO countries to up their spending on defence.

They ignored him and we are reaping that whirlwind.

What Europe needs is leaders that can be honest about where they are militarily without the US, and that is no where. Peace with Russia in Ukraine is the only realistic option to suck up.

Spoken like a true Russian shill