[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[crookie]

Just makes you want to cry. Zelensky is 20 times the leader and statesman that Trump will ever be. He's led his country admirably for 3 years of a brutal invasion, unbowed and unbeaten, yet he's now being thrown under the bus by Trump who seems utterly in thrall to Putin.

Totally unreal that any Western politician could take anything a Russian politician says at face value, yet the Yanks are lapping it all up.

As others have said though, Europe enjoyed the peace dividend, hollowed out their armed forces and industries, took the US protection for granted. Sadly it's a bit late now to be scrabbling around to cobble together a peacekeeping force of any size and credibility, let alone keep supplying Ukraine with sufficient armaments.

It has never looked bleaker for Ukraine since the opening days of this, but you never know. Quite often in life, when things look bad, the unexpected can happen. I've everything crossed that this is one of those times. Maybe Trump has an epiphany, maybe Europe can step up to the plate, maybe Ukraine can achieve some battlefield victories, maybe a drone strike takes out Putin.

What is certain is that Ukraine will never give up, my thoughts are with those of you with family there, I truly hope there are better times ahead.

 

[Hugo Rune]

One miss by one bullet by one inch.

My god, we’re paying a high price for that….

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

One miss by one bullet by one inch.

My god, we’re paying a high price for that….

Trump is getting his exit strategy from the peace negotiations in place after realising that no one ( of any importance) takes him seriously.
It’ll be a case of ‘I had WONDERFUL idea and did everything to make this happen but BAD people wouldn’t do as they were told’!

He truely is a CSY*

* Cock Sucking Yank

 

[SouthSaxon]

In the full video, Trump also recounts telling Putin during his first term “don’t you dare go into Ukraine”.

Besides, claiming that Ukraine started the war wasn’t even the most insane thing in that video posted above. That would be his rambling about people over 200 years old receiving social security payments. Newsflash: they didn’t.

The man is clearly a few cards short of a full deck.

But people also overestimate his power. He cannot force Ukraine to take a deal. If it’s the attempted shafting we all suspect it will be, Zelenskyy can just keep sending drones and firing artillery.

 

[Bodian]

In the full video, Trump also recounts telling Putin during his first term “don’t you dare go into Ukraine”.

Yes - basically admitting that he knew Russia wanted to invade. Yet not bringing his great negotiating skills to help out.

The other thing that bemuses me is what sort of 'deal' he thinks was possible straight after Russia invaded? Just giving them some land or something? Does he really think that would have been a lasting peace??

 

[Triggaaar]

Exactly.
What are they going to do?

Moan a lot.

But if things continue as they have, the Russian system will collapse. Then they'll be too busy fighting among themselves to worry about Ukraine joining Nato.

 

[Triggaaar]

Trump's latest comments about Ukraine having had the last three years to negotiate, and many more before that, almost sound like Putin has brainwashed him in their recent 90 minute phone call.

Where to start with that utter drivel

I never thought I'd ever see the day a sitting American president backed an aggressive Russia over an oppressed former Soviet republiclike Ukraine, one that has been friendly towards the West and can contribute so much to the EU in the future.

It's mind blowing.

You wonder what the likes of former great presidents FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Reagan would make of Trump's words and actions.

They'd say America is under attack from the POTUS.

 

[Triggaaar]

What happens if Trump says to Putin stop the invasion (for now) you have won the lands you have there yours.
i will make sure all the oligarchs and Russian money taken or withheld by Europe is returned.
is that F’kn us over ? Is that possible

Yes that would be f'kn Ukraine over, but it wouldn't work. Putin stops, but Ukraine would keep on fighting. They'd keep killing Russian soldiers and keep bombing refineries etc. And Trump can't take money held by Europe either.

 

[Pavilionaire]

So today I wake up to the ITV Good Morning Britain debate on whether military Nation Service needs to be brought back, hiw inflation has climbed half a percent to 3%. I listen to commentators saying without the US in NATO our defence spending will not have to just climb by 0.2% to 2.5% but double to around 5% of GDP.

Given the new world order we are now in I don't see Starmer has any other choice than to take an emergency decision and put a Customs Union with the EU to the Commons vote, as it is the ONLY way we can afford the huge increase in military spending AND run our infrastructure, and build these hundreds of thousands of houses we need for our growing population.

Not only economically, but now is the moment to head off Trump loving Farage and his Reform Party, and kill the Brexit toxicity before it's too late and we become lost to money and Far Right like the USA.

If anyone else has an alternative plan for how we pay for all of this shit I'd love to hear it.

 

[Triggaaar]

Anything is possible with this ego centric, lobotomised orange cretin. It's beginning to look like Ukraine would have been better off to have laid red carpet 3 years ago, invited the Russian tanks in and capitulated to subjugation.

No it wouldn't. If that had happened, the young men of Ukraine would have been forced to join the army so that Putin could invade the rest of the USSR. So the same lives would be lost, the same families torn apart, but this time it would be to fight innocents in another country, rather than to defend their own.

Appeasing aggressors doesn't work.

 

[essbee1]

I doubt Trump will ever be able to set foot in this country again. There'll be social disorder that will make the poll tax
riots look like a teddy bear's picnic in the park.

 

[Triggaaar]

It has never looked bleaker for Ukraine since the opening days of this

Trump's actions are completely depressing, but that doesn't mean it's totally bleak for Ukraine. The US aren't about to start arming Russia and Europe can still support Ukraine. Let's just keep supporting Ukraine and see what happens.

but you never know. Quite often in life, when things look bad, the unexpected can happen. I've everything crossed that this is one of those times. Maybe Trump has an epiphany, maybe Europe can step up to the plate, maybe Ukraine can achieve some battlefield victories

Ukraine achieve battlefield victories every day.

 

[Jim in the West]

I doubt Trump will ever be able to set foot in this country again. There'll be social disorder that will make the poll tax
riots look like a teddy bear's picnic in the park.

Let’s hope so. I’ll be there!

 

[Triggaaar]

One miss by one bullet by one inch.

My god, we’re paying a high price for that….

It's incredible. Trump blaming the victim again.

 

[Triggaaar]

The other thing that bemuses me is what sort of 'deal' he thinks was possible straight after Russia invaded? Just giving them some land or something? Does he really think that would have been a lasting peace??

It's all complete BS.

 

[Flounce]

How are you torn? What could possibly be good about it?

After hearing Trump’s latest utterances I apologise for feeling torn! I was hopeful that it was a preliminary meeting to see if there was a potential solution to ending the war before approaching Ukraine for their input. It seems that I was very very wrong.

 

[SouthSaxon]

So today I wake up to the ITV Good Morning Britain debate on whether military Nation Service needs to be brought back, hiw inflation has climbed half a percent to 3%. I listen to commentators saying without the US in NATO our defence spending will not have to just climb by 0.2% to 2.5% but double to around 5% of GDP.

Given the new world order we are now in I don't see Starmer has any other choice than to take an emergency decision and put a Customs Union with the EU to the Commons vote, as it is the ONLY way we can afford the huge increase in military spending AND run our infrastructure, and build these hundreds of thousands of houses we need for our growing population.

Not only economically, but now is the moment to head off Trump loving Farage and his Reform Party, and kill the Brexit toxicity before it's too late and we become lost to money and Far Right like the USA.

If anyone else has an alternative plan for how we pay for all of this shit I'd love to hear it.

The excellent Chris Grey talks about the possibilities on UK/Europe relations in his latest Brexit and Beyond blog.

That was written almost two weeks ago and contains no mention of Ukraine or Putin. Things are moving quickly; we’re still a long way from rejoining a customs union, but the conditions for that to be a serious discussion are emerging.

 

[The Clamp]

The U.S. and Russia are now allies.

This is a very dangerous time.

 

[fly high]

I think you need to watch some Russian state TV. Here's one clip.

It's all curated of course, but therefore provides a glimpse into the real thoughts of the Kremlin.
By the way, I've not seen Margarita Simonyan in a while.

Weird, I had a thought yesterday with US & Russia getting so pally, pally would they come up with something completely mad like this?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The U.S. and Russia are now allies.

This is a very dangerous time.

Russia is no longer a heavy weight as the last three years has shown. That’s now just The US and China.

Trumps language is telling as is he manner of doing things. ‘Doing a deal’ is business talk as is going behind someone’s back to get a deal that suits you. This isn’t about peace but about making Trump rich. He's playing Russia so he can get mineral rights etc out of Ukraine. This tactic may work in business but in diplomacy this is a non starter. Thousands of people have died and you simply don’t ignore this. Turkey siding with Ukraine will put a spanner in the works for Trump as Turkey wants a weak Russia. Talk of Europe becoming closer militarily will also add to the mix.