[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Yes. Unless they've recently changed the Geneva Convention, deliberate targeting of civilians is not allowed. Even if your enemy did it first.

Indeed. Russia does it every day of course...

 

[The Clamp]

I’m glad they’ve lifted this ludicrous restriction which should never have been in place.

It played right into Putin’s hands.

It was a huge mistake to make such a marked point about it being in place. It never needed to be. It should never have existed or mentioned.

It gave Putin another one of his “red lines” which he dared the West not to cross.

And it shouldn’t be being made into such a big deal now it’s been lifted. There shouldn’t be any reporting around it at all.

He says that about everything, so massive barrel of Siberia’s finest salt on that.

Nevertheless, why do we constantly get these basic moves so wrong?

 

[Triggaaar]

Bollocks. WWII was a legitimate fight for the allies. Unlike Putin's 'Special Military Operation' there was a genuine need to defeat fascism, and I'm damn glad our parents and grandparents did just that, and f*** any wet wimps who start whinging and wringing their hands about it.

You seem to be confused between your personal opinion and what the world has agreed are war crimes. I'm not saying you can't be glad that our ancestors did what they did, but you're incorrect to say that no war crimes were committed by the allies.

 

[Triggaaar]

And it shouldn’t be being made into such a big deal now it’s been lifted. There shouldn’t be any reporting around it at all.

But the reporting of it gives us hope for Ukraine and that's a good thing.

Because Russia have been unable to win on the battlefield, one of their key strategies has been to spread propaganda to pretend that they will win, and so people should stop supporting Ukraine. The news that Ukraine now have more ability to fight back helps fight that propaganda.

 

[The Clamp]

But the reporting of it gives us hope for Ukraine and that's a good thing.

Because Russia have been unable to win on the battlefield, one of their key strategies has been to spread propaganda to pretend that they will win, and so people should stop supporting Ukraine. The news that Ukraine now have more ability to fight back helps fight that propaganda.

Well to a point.

They may as well report it I suppose, now they have lifted the nonsensical, totally arbitrary restriction anyway.

I’d not report if if it were my decision. But then I’d have blasted Russia back to the sulphur swamps the minute it attempted to take Crimea in 2014.

Putin should have had his filthy fascist pants pulled down long ago.

 

[A mex eyecan]

If we do end up putting troops in, I hope the French are put in charge of the catering.

It would depend on where their head chef Les car goes.

 

[raymondo]

 

[Commander]

You seem to be confused between your personal opinion and what the world has agreed are war crimes. I'm not saying you can't be glad that our ancestors did what they did, but you're incorrect to say that no war crimes were committed by the allies.

The rules for conflict were created in 1949 at the Geneva convention, weren't they? Om which case surely the Allies can't have committed war crimes before then, because they didn't exist.

 

[nevergoagain]

You seem to be confused between your personal opinion and what the world has agreed are war crimes. I'm not saying you can't be glad that our ancestors did what they did, but you're incorrect to say that no war crimes were committed by the allies.

I don't know the answer to this, genuinely, but were they actually marked as war crimes in WW2?. Geneva convention was afterwards of course but I don't know what the predecessor (Hague ?) said. To be clear, I'm not doubting that the Allies did commit what would be classed as war crimes today.

 

[Triggaaar]

But then I’d have blasted Russia back to the sulphur swamps the minute it attempted to take Crimea in 2014.

It would have been easier then too, because Putin said it was nothing to do with him, just rebels. We could have supported Ukraine against the 'rebels'.

 

[Triggaaar]

The rules for conflict were created in 1949 at the Geneva convention, weren't they? Om which case surely the Allies can't have committed war crimes before then, because they didn't exist.

No, there were rules of engagement before the first World War.

 

[Binney on acid]

About bloody time !

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't know the answer to this, genuinely, but were they actually marked as war crimes in WW2?. Geneva convention was afterwards of course but I don't know what the predecessor (Hague ?) said. To be clear, I'm not doubting that the Allies did commit what would be classed as war crimes today.

I think changes were made (crimes added, definitions changed) but Nazis from ww2 were prosecuted for war crimes. Difficult to do that if they weren't crimes during the war, but I don't know.

 

[Eric the meek]

Sky News digest - a few points:

Trump Jnr kicking off.
Big step to WW3, danger, provocation etc - various Russians.
Freezing conflict along current lines unacceptable - Peskov.
Some ambiguity from France over deployment of missiles - may be deliberate?

Ukraine war latest: Kremlin offers first response after Biden allows Ukraine to use US missiles inside Russia

Joe Biden has allowed Ukraine to strike inside Russia with long-range US missiles, prompting dire warnings from Moscow. Meanwhile, 11 people have been killed after major attacks in the Ukrainian city of Sumy.

news.sky.com

 

[Titanic]

Why does France get away with contributing so little compared to Germany and UK?

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Why does France get away with contributing so little compared to Germany and UK?

What are the stats on this?

 

[Flounce]

Why does France get away with contributing so little compared to Germany and UK?

Because they are spending the money on their fantastic roads which make ours look Third World.

 

[peterward]

I don't think that's correct. If you have a link to show that's it's not a war crime, fair enough.




I don't even know where to start with that, it's completely wrong. Torturing people for information on the Third Reich was not legitimate, and was a war crime.

Its something in between by letter of law.

It is illegal to target purely civillian infrastructre or civillians themselves, however hitting Russian energy substations and power grid could imho be deemed as part of the Russian military industrial complex being used to build the weapons that attack Ukraine, if just one such entitity does use it, in which case it would be a legitimate target.

If Ukraine were to hit something that was only used for civillian energy and had not even a single military factory/entity using its power, then it would be illegal if it could ever be proved in a court.

I doubt much would ever be done legally, or that Ukraine wouldnt be able to claim it was being used by military. Real Politik says the upside is bigger than any potential downsides.

 

[essbee1]

Sky News digest - a few points:

Trump Jnr kicking off.
Big step to WW3, danger, provocation etc - various Russians.
Freezing conflict along current lines unacceptable - Peskov.
Some ambiguity from France over deployment of missiles - may be deliberate?

Ukraine war latest: Kremlin offers first response after Biden allows Ukraine to use US missiles inside Russia

Joe Biden has allowed Ukraine to strike inside Russia with long-range US missiles, prompting dire warnings from Moscow. Meanwhile, 11 people have been killed after major attacks in the Ukrainian city of Sumy.

news.sky.com

The hypocrisy of these Russian cretins beggars belief. Well pals, you're about to get a taste of your own medicine. Big time. Enjoy.

 

[Titanic]

What are the stats on this?

from BBC live news thread...

Ukraine-Russia war: Kremlin says Biden throwing 'oil on fire' by allowing Ukraine to use US missiles inside Russia

The decision by President Biden will allow Ukraine to fire into Russia using US long-range missiles it's had for more than a year.

www.bbc.co.uk