[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Sirnormangall]

The last time I looked, in the middle of the war, Turkey was running cruises with several Turkish ports of call along the Turkish coast of the Black Sea, marketing to, and taking the money from, Russians.

I believe it's a cultural thing.

I’m ok with that. I just don’t understand why (as part of the sanctions regime) they can’t stop all shipping from and to Russian ports leaving or entering the Black and Baltic seas.

 

[peterward]

My neighbor reckons our nuclear weapon thingies are not so autonomous .
Says the subs are ours, but the missiles are the US's and we have to get them MOTed by them regularly
France's are fully under local control i believe.
I haven't a clue.
@Deportivo Seagull maybe

Ours are American, though i read we do have full control over them and they are autonomous?

French is definitely French designed, French created and French controlled, which may be a good thing....... or may he a bad thing if the electrics are anything like Renault or Citroën!

 

[Eric the meek]

I’m ok with that. I just don’t understand why (as part of the sanctions regime) they can’t stop all shipping from and to Russian ports leaving or entering the Black and Baltic seas.

From memory (which may be a bit suspect), I think they at first let all Russian maritime shipping through the Bosphorus both ways. Then later on in the war, (presumably due to pressure from the west) I think they stopped Russian military vessels from going through, so that these were forced to hole up in Russian Black Sea ports (and therefore be in range of Ukrainian sea drones).

I'm pretty sure that shadow fleet civilian vessels are let through even today (some of them having been sanctioned), hence the tales of oil tankers in trouble in the Med etc.

Caveat: my knowledge is far from complete and I may be wrong.

But note that Europe (if you include Turkey) is potentially able to control a couple of very useful pinch points for Russian sea trade (Baltic and Black Sea/Bosphorus), and can choke it off in a crisis.

 

[raymondo]

Ours are American, though i read we do have full control over them and they are autonomous?

French is definitely French designed, French created and French controlled, which may be a good thing....... or may he a bad thing if the electrics are anything like Renault or Citroën!

The satnav in my neighbour's Citroën C5 worked well in the UK but was rubbish in France.
Yes, I believe we have control of the missiles we have...just wondering if the US (well Trump)may not return the ones we send for servicing. Oh well, can't worry about everything.

 

[SouthSaxon]

But note that Europe (if you include Turkey) is potentially able to control a couple of very useful pinch points for Russian sea trade (Baltic and Black Sea/Bosphorus), and can choke it off in a crisis.

I think this is why they’re keen to open up those Atlantic shipping routes we hear so much about. Bypass any European blockade.

Now, why is Trump making noises about Greenland and Canada again?

 

[Sirnormangall]

But note that Europe (if you include Turkey) is potentially able to control a couple of very useful pinch points for Russian sea trade (Baltic and Black Sea/Bosphorus), and can choke it off in a crisis.

Thanks for clarifying. I think the time of crisis isn’t far off, so NATO should block Black and Baltic seas to all Russian naval traffic. Might showTrump and Putin that they don’t hold all the cards. There’s probably some international law that says that can’t be done - but it seems that increasingly international law is observed by countries only when it suits them.

 

[Eric the meek]

I think this is why they’re keen to open up those Atlantic shipping routes we hear so much about. Bypass any European blockade.

Now, why is Trump making noises about Greenland and Canada again?

 

[SouthSaxon]

Thanks for clarifying. I think the time of crisis isn’t far off, so NATO should block Black and Baltic seas to all Russian naval traffic. Might showTrump and Putin that they don’t hold all the cards. There’s probably some international law that says that can’t be done - but it seems that increasingly international law is observed by countries only when it suits them.

Genuine question, how do they enforce that without firing on the Russian ships and definitely triggering war?

 

[peterward]

Another day, another despicable Trump attack on Ukraines ability to fight off Putins genocide.

The US is ending support for Ukrainian F-16s, but there is a way out — online.ua

US President Donald Trump's team has ordered the termination of vital support for F-16 fighter jet jamming equipment that Ukraine has. What is important to understand is that this could deprive the Ukrainian Air Force of its most important air countermeasures.

news.online.ua

 

[Eric the meek]

Another day, another despicable Trump attack on Ukraines ability to fight off Putins genocide.

The US is ending support for Ukrainian F-16s, but there is a way out — online.ua

US President Donald Trump's team has ordered the termination of vital support for F-16 fighter jet jamming equipment that Ukraine has. What is important to understand is that this could deprive the Ukrainian Air Force of its most important air countermeasures.

news.online.ua

All the more reason to sever the knot with the US.

Even if, by some miracle, US military aid were reinstated, what is to stop the US pulling the plug again in the future? Or using pulling the plug as a lever to blackmail Ukraine?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

All the more reason to sever the knot with the US.

Even if, by some miracle, US military aid were reinstated, what is to stop the US pulling the plug again in the future? Or using pulling the plug as a lever to blackmail Ukraine?

Just hope the **** gets shot

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

My neighbor reckons our nuclear weapon thingies are not so autonomous .
Says the subs are ours, but the missiles are the US's and we have to get them MOTed by them regularly
France's are fully under local control i believe.
I haven't a clue.
@Deportivo Seagull maybe

Not a clue.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

All the more reason to sever the knot with the US.

Even if, by some miracle, US military aid were reinstated, what is to stop the US pulling the plug again in the future? Or using pulling the plug as a lever to blackmail Ukraine?

Who can still doubt Trump's intentions?!

 

[Sirnormangall]

Genuine question, how do they enforce that without firing on the Russian ships and definitely triggering war?

Yes it runs the risk of escalation. I don’t know how strong the Russian navy is and Putin would no doubt threaten to blow out of the water any blockade. It’s maybe similar to the UK, France and others proposing to put peacekeeping forces in Ukraine - Russia might object but what will they do about it? As you can tell, I wouldn’t be much good at this diplomacy malarkey.

 

[peterward]

All the more reason to sever the knot with the US.

Even if, by some miracle, US military aid were reinstated, what is to stop the US pulling the plug again in the future? Or using pulling the plug as a lever to blackmail Ukraine?

Listening to a twitter space right now, with a US medic talking from front line via starlink on it, saying if Starlink gets pulled they're screwed. So much of command/control relies on it.

Good news 40,000 oneweb dishes (british company) that run on the french Eutelsat are already on route to Ukraine to replace starlink before it might get pulled.

https://x.com/i/spaces/1vOxwXmVmqMKB

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

@cunning fergus I’d be interested to know what you think about this.
Reform are fvcked and you’re pissing in the wind on here

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Yes it runs the risk of escalation. I don’t know how strong the Russian navy is and Putin would no doubt threaten to blow out of the water any blockade. It’s maybe similar to the UK, France and others proposing to put peacekeeping forces in Ukraine - Russia might object but what will they do about it? As you can tell, I wouldn’t be much good at this diplomacy malarkey.

Going on the fact that the army is a mess and the air force is nonexistent, I suspect it’s a bit shit.

 

[Eric the meek]

Who can still doubt Trump's intentions?!

With each day that passes.....

 

[Eric the meek]

With each day that passes.....

Trump is systematically disabling Ukraine's ability to defend itself.

 

[A1X]

French is definitely French designed, French created and French controlled, which may be a good thing....... or may he a bad thing if the electrics are anything like Renault or Citroën!

So the fate of the world might boil down to “which is less shit, Citroen or Lada?”