[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

Yes. They see Zelensky as a barrier to Russian victory. However, they are painting him as a barrier to peace.

Agreed. I also see a parallel.

They see Nato as a barrier to further Russian expansion west across Europe. This is why they are against Ukraine joining Nato, and against 'European/Nato' peacekeeping forces in Ukraine - their latest red line.

We should be guided by what Russia want. We should do exactly the opposite of what they want. More Zelensky and more Nato.

 

[SouthSaxon]

If I was Zelensky, I might point out now that Trump is clearly not serious about peace as he's doing everything to destabilise Ukraine. How does facilitating a Russian victory help to 'stop the killing'?

It would mean the killing is no longer reported on Fox News, which is probably the same thing as far as Trump is concerned.

 

[peterward]

Steve Rosenburg has been brilliant as BBC's man in Moscow. Latest despatch isnt a pleasant watch

 

[pb21]

Amuse, that Musk quoted is a very well know,n, 100% pro Russian propaganda account, probably even FSB controlled. After this story came out, that theyd been chatting to Yulia Tymoschenko and Petro Poroshenko, they both issued rebuttals. Its Putins wet dream to try and force an election he can intefere with or seek to rig. He can dream on.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/06/eu-leaders-summit-defence-ukraine-russia-macron-zelenskyy-europe-news-live?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with%3Ablock-67c98f9c8f087816aea29dd3#block-67c98f9c8f087816aea29dd3

It's stuff like this that makes it hard to believe Musk isn't a Russian asset.

 

[Motogull]

If I was Zelensky, I might point out now that Trump is clearly not serious about peace as he's doing everything to destabilise Ukraine. How does facilitating a Russian victory help to 'stop the killing'?

Well, removing financial support and intelligence is a massive boost for Putin, so I guess it increases the possibility of a Ukrainian surrender.

 

[Seagull58]

Excellent news. Zelensky can now throw the agreement in the bin and sign the European minerals deal, which has been proposed. Europe can remove the US from the war/peace making process.

 

[A1X]

 

[raymondo]

It's stuff like this that makes it hard to believe Musk isn't a Russian asset.

He is a Russian asset in plain site - nobody should think he's being clever and playing the Russians - he's an asset pure and simple/

 

[cunning fergus]

I try to avoid Amazon if I can help it.

So what, in your opinion, should the main players (excluding Trump/US/Putin) do from here? You keep repeating the same points on this but refuse to offer anything constructive.

Who are the main military players, outside the US and Russia in this moment of crisis?

In conventional military terms the Europeans are minnows. As it stands, the more credible military players Italy Germany and Poland are on the sidelines and not in the Starmer/Macron coalition of the willing. France and U.K. plus the baltics and a few other uncommitted randoms are not going to be able to deploy a meaningful peacekeeping force to Ukraine, even if that’s what Starmer and Macron want to do.

That’s before we even start to digest the cost of such an initiative for the British taxpayer. I may keep repaying the point, but as sympathetic as the British public might be to the plight of Ukraine, there is a threshold in cost, whether money or blood, and the wider public are not bought into either.

An imperfect peace is the only constructive solution based on the facts.

 

[Scappa]

Well, removing financial support and intelligence is a massive boost for Putin, so I guess it increases the possibility of a Ukrainian surrender.

There is no way the killing stops if Ukraine surrender. The atrocities in Bucha, Bodorianka, Mariupol and numerous other settlements occupied by Russia show that reprisals against the defenders - civilian or military - will likely be heavy and brutal, irrespective of any 'peace' agreement.

Zelensky knows this better than anyone, which makes his position as decision maker for his people so horrendously impossible.

 

[raymondo]

In a war between Russia and Ukraine. The first to surrender is Donald Trump.

I seriously think that if/when China invade Taiwan...Trump will flip and support China.
"Taiwan had it coming to them, they encouraged this"
" Taiwan wouldn't share their semi-conductor engineering with China for free"
"China is so much bigger, Taiwan should have rolled over"

...it's so much easier to join in and support the big guys, far less risk to oneself.

 

[cunning fergus]

I haven’t been to Northolt in a while so wouldn‘t know but

1) Russia is on its knees as they are having to borrow troops from NK and have used mercenaries, and then there’s the emptying out of the jails to find troops .. and sending wounded troops back to the front line. That really is the behaviours of an army that is just purring along without a worry on the world.

2) That is not what I said and you know it. I said that the question that Europe has is 8do they have the willing to try and evict Russia from Ukraine‘. That is not ‘simply’ a case of turning up.

3) again not what I said. Are you naturally this much of a knob or do you practice? I said that Russia is not in a position to take Europe as it couldn’t take Ukraine. We should all fear Putin because like Trump he’s a nut job however militarily Russia aren’t in a position to take on Europe. A cohesive and united Europe will worry him a whole lot more.

As for providing weapons and logistics to Ukraine not happening well it most certainly is, I know as it’s the industry I work in …

If Russia is on its knees militarily and economically as you have referenced then deployment of superior European military forces (unsupported by the US) is a simple equation to evict them from Ukraine. It’s not that simple though.

And even if you were right, you at least recognise that it would need a willing Europe cohesive and United, and it’s not. So, it doesn’t matter, on that basis Europe is not going to Ukraine. FACT.

 

[raymondo]

Was I right all along (that this presidency is just shits and giggles and 'immune from prosecution, pardoned (by myself), and....exhale)?

Not sure there is evidence Trump cares much about anything much, including what he said or ranted about yesterday, as far as I can see.

It is all a massive Cartmanesque wankathon.

Yes, but if that's the case, Harry, it looks like Musk and Vance really DO care about furthering their agenda under the protection of Trump...and that's not going to be good.

 

[raymondo]

Is there anything else that Trump can do to increase the pressure on Ukraine to sign the minerals deal?

It seems that he is absolutely desperate for it to happen.

Turn off Starlink.
Remotely deactivate Patriot defence systems.
Donate weapons to Russia.

 

[raymondo]

As expected:

No surprises any more . It would be more honest if the US left NATO...but Putin wants them in to veto any article 5 calling.

 

[Triggaaar]

There is no way the killing stops if Ukraine surrender. The atrocities in Bucha, Bodorianka, Mariupol and numerous other settlements occupied by Russia show that reprisals against the defenders - civilian or military - will likely be heavy and brutal, irrespective of any 'peace' agreement.

I agree.

Zelensky knows this better than anyone, which makes his position as decision maker for his people so horrendously impossible.

Surely it makes his position easy, rather than impossible? Surrender is simply not an option, so they must fight until Russia are stopped.

 

[peterward]

It's stuff like this that makes it hard to believe Musk isn't a Russian asset.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, but if that's the case, Harry, it looks like Musk and Vance really DO care about furthering their agenda under the protection of Trump...and that's not going to be good.

You are quite right.
What is going on?
It seems like madhouse 'politics'

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

If Russia is on its knees militarily and economically as you have referenced then deployment of superior European military forces (unsupported by the US) is a simple equation to evict them from Ukraine. It’s not that simple though.

And even if you were right, you at least recognise that it would need a willing Europe cohesive and United, and it’s not. So, it doesn’t matter, on that basis Europe is not going to Ukraine. FACT.

Christ on a bike. I've said it’s not that simple! War isn’t and tbh shouldn't be.
evicting Russia from Ukraine will not be easy but can be done. The fact that Ukraine made merry in Kursk shows just how vulnerable the Russians are.
It’s not FACT it’s your opinion, which isn’t worth much considering the bollocks you’ve been posting. I suppose if you are on here you aren't annoying anyone else.

 

[SouthSaxon]

An imperfect peace is the only constructive solution based on the facts.

And what would be the features of this imperfect peace?